Worried about creditor's meeting we had

[yomama]

It was just this past Wednesday. My husband and I filed for Chapter 7. At the end the trustee said, "This is a no assets case." That's not what has me worried. The fact that my husband inadvertently said, "No" to something he should have said, "Yes" to when the trustee asked him, and now I'm wondering if that will cause problems. I mentioned on here before that he had taken his name off of our daughter's cd in the bank back in about August or September because we felt since she would be turning 21 that the money should be in her name. Then when we filed for bankruptcy we didn't even think about that being a transfer since it really was her money from the time she was little. Apparently our lawyer considers it a transfer though, and I thought that's what he had said at our last meeting and that he was going to add it onto the papers, but I was thinking maybe I misunderstood because my husband answered no to the trustee at the meeting. I almost said something about the cd of our daughter's but didn't because I was afraid that I was wrong and that my husband was right, so I didn't say anything. I didn't really answer yes or no. We were mutually answering the questions at the same time and after the trustee asked that one and I heard my husband's answer, I sort of just sat there thinking about it. Apparently you don't both have to answer? The trustee didn't ask me for an answer. He mostly was looking/typing at his computer (I think, but I was too nervous and am not sure what he was doing, maybe just reading the questions). I don't even think I answered the next question after that (and I don't even remember what it was). I was just kind of thinking about the other question yet and thought that I must have misunderstood the lawyer. I thought my husband quick looked through the papers right before the meeting, but he must have been as nervous as I was and everything didn't sink in. I was too nervous to really look them over thoroughly (I knew I couldn't concentrate on what was in front of me anyway). The lawyer's office called the day before to say that the papers were ready for us to look at and we could come down and look at them that day (I didn't get the message until half an hour before they were going to close) or could look at them the next morning at 8:30. Our meeting was at 9:00 and I thought that would give us enough time to look at them then anyway. Well, we showed up at the lawyer's office, but the door was locked. We knocked but nobody answered, so we went straight to the building where the meeting would be. Even though I didn't technically look over the final papers (how could I in such a short time), I still said, "Yes" along with my husband when the trustee asked because I was afraid to say no, that it might cause a problem. Just what would he do if either of us would say that we didn't have a chance to look over the papers? Now I kind of wish I had done that, but I was trusting that my husband looked over everything. It looked like he was doing that, but I don't know if it was sinking in. The lawyer had the papers and gave them to us 5 minutes before we walked into the meeting, which was hardly much advance notice. I think of all these things now AFTER the fact! Well, I noticed later on that the cd was listed as a transfer in the papers the lawyer filed. So now what? I hope that they won't dismiss our case because my husband answered no. I even asked him about it after the meeting, why he didn't answer yes and he said that that wasn't considered a transfer. Apparently, he didn't read the papers right! Now I'm worried sick. It's not like we intentionally lied. It was a misunderstanding.

[lrprn]

Don't panic, yomama. Talk to your lawyer on Monday about what happened and find out what he advises you to do under the circumstances. Your husband made an honest mistake which can be explained to your trustee if your lawyer thinks that's the right thing to do.

[yomama]

Thank you very much for reassuring me. This has been on my mind and I really didn't know what to do, and my husband doesn't even seem concerned about it. If I'd be him, I'd have been talking to the lawyer right afterwards but he didn't because I guess he answered it the way he thought he should since it's our daughter's money in the cd and my husband didn't think that was a transfer. The filing papers say otherwise though. It's not like he was lying to hide anything. After all, if we were trying to hide something, we wouldn't have even mentioned the cd to the lawyer in the first place. I will call our lawyer tomorrow morning.

[Spartan]

If you make an honest mistake, with no intention to deceive nor to shield assets, there is no penalty.

[yomama]

Spartan, Thank you very much for your reply too. Thank goodness that it is that way because yes, it was an honest mistake. We just kind of feel stupid for saying we signed our names to the papers and then my husband says something that contradicts what the papers say, and I didn't open up my mouth and contradict what he said because I thought that he must know what he's doing. Deep down I know that if we had had more time to review those papers (I hated that last minute skimming over the papers...now this is the result), we'd have both noticed that the lawyer added on that information (the cd as being a transfer), and my husband would have answered accordingly. The papers were changed since we reviewed them before, and my husband had mistakenly understood that the cd wasn't considered a transfer. So in the rush job we had, neither of us noticed the paper that mentioned the cd. Now this is 2 things that probably make us look like we don't know what we're doing or maybe they'd think we're lying. The other was that we told our lawyer previously about our needing to add a creditor that wasn't on the papers the first time. We told him that several weeks ago but it still wasn't on as of Wednesday when our creditor's meeting was. I know he could have changed it because the information about the cd wasn't on the original papers. We had mentioned it to him at our inital consult and then we forgot about it and apparently so did the lawyer because he never put it on the papers. I guess we were just so concentrating on all the credit cards and the loans that we had to list (much bigger bills) that we forgot about this one local creditor (a health provider who we owe $80 to). So now I suppose we'll have to pay to add that one on to the papers, and we were paying on that one, hoping to get it paid off. I wonder if it would make sense to pay $26 (I think that's what I had read on here before what it costs to add a creditor after filing) to add that on to the list and then still pay them the $80 yet. You do have to list ALL of your creditors, correct? It makes me kind of mad that none of us had thought before filing to add that one. We had wanted to keep in good standing with them since we might have to use them again in the future, but yet it gripes me to have to pay money to add them and then pay them too. Ugh, what to do!

I was impressed with the lawyer at first, but as time went on I seemed to think more and more that he's unorganized. He misses things that we tell him, he waited until the last minute to show us the revised papers, he also waited until the last minute (right before the meeting) to give us the debtor's statement (or whatever he called it) and told us that the trustee will ask if we read it. Another thing is that he sent my husband a reaffirmation agreement in the mail from the bank that my husband co-signed a car loan with the friend of our daughter's (I didn't like at the time that he did that) and said to my husband in the letter to sign it and return it to his office because he has to file it before the discharge. That's not the car that my husband wants to reaffirm though! He has his own vehicle he wants to reaffirm and he hasn't received any papers for that. Do we have to do that on our own? Is it necessary to sign a statement to that effect for his car even though the filing papers said he wants to keep making payments on it.
Since my confidence in our lawyer has lessened over time, I just hope that he gives us the right advice when I call him today and ask him what my husband should do about that answer he gave in error. Sorry this got so long.

[Spartan]

"...You do have to list ALL of your creditors, correct? "

Yes, you do need to list any and all creditors that you KNOW of. You cannot deliberately pick and choose which one to list and which not to list. BUT, if you have forgotten some, then there is no fault of yours and no penalty. Those unsecured debts that your have forgotten to list, will also be discharged.

There is one exception. If there is fraud involved in those forgotten debts, then the creditors can challenge the discharge. The court will accept their argument that, had they been duly notified, they would have been able to dispute the discharge promptly. In that case, those debts are not automatically discharged.

So, IF there is no fraud involved, then unsecured debt that you have forgotten to list, are discharged in your bk.

[Spartan]

"...So now I suppose we'll have to pay to add that one on to the papers, and we were paying on that one, hoping to get it paid off. I wonder if it would make sense to pay $26 (I think that's what I had read on here before what it costs to add a creditor after filing) to add that on to the list and then still pay them the $80 yet..."

Why not just pay them the $80 you owe them and leave them out of the BK?

No one would care. No one the wiser. It is better off for you, since you want to continue the relationship with them.

It doesn't make sense to add them to the BK and then pay them.

I would just pay them and do not bother to add them to the bk.

The amount involved is inmaterial. It is an innocent oversight, in not listing them at first. No one will bet an eyelid over it.

[Spartan]

"...Another thing is that he sent my husband a reaffirmation agreement in the mail from the bank that my husband co-signed a car loan with the friend of our daughter's (I didn't like at the time that he did that) and said to my husband in the letter to sign it and return it to his office because he has to file it before the discharge. That's not the car that my husband wants to reaffirm though! He has his own vehicle he wants to reaffirm and he hasn't received any papers for that. Do we have to do that on our own? Is it necessary to sign a statement to that effect for his car even though the filing papers said he wants to keep making payments on it. ..."

Reaffirmation is beyond the scope of my knowledge. Someone else will chime in to help.

[yomama]

Spartan, Yes, that's what I thought, that we needed to list all of our creditors and since we forgot that one, I thought that we had to add it. I just "love" the way our lawyer doesn't answer our questions when we ask him. We keep mentioning this to him and he never responds either way. Anyway, I thought that since we remembered this one creditor after the fact we would still have to list them. Had I known that it wasn't necessary to do that since we forgot them in the filing papers, then I wouldn't have even bothered to tell the lawyer about them. I guess I should have listened to my husband and not even mentioned it to the lawyer. I think he might add them on since I've been making an issue of it, but I'm not sure. If he does add them and we would have to pay a fee, then I don't think that we're also going to pay them off, although that was our original intentions. It was an honest mistake that that one creditor wasn't included in the petition. I wish we had realized they were forgotten when we read over the filed papers the first time. So you're saying that even though we did honestly forget them, we don't have to add them on now and can continue to pay them? I'd rather do that because well just because we intended to pay them. Actually, we intended to pay off all our credit cards too eventually, but then it got to the point where we realized that they had gotten ahead of us. We haven't used credit in over a year with the exception of one time when my husband needed to get gas and didn't have money along. It feels so good to be able to go to the mailbox and not dread opening up all those credit card statements. It was downright depressing! We don't intend to ever get on that carousel again, that's for sure. No amount of pleasure (going out to eat or going on a family vacation) is worth the anxiety later on when you realize that you're getting further and further behind in trying to pay off the credit card debt. Even if we never go on vacation for the rest of our lives (and we really probably won't be able to) and if we only get to go out to a restaurant once in a great while, I can live with that. At least I'll have peace of mind knowing that we don't owe what seems like everyone on earth.

Thanks for your replies.

[Spartan]

"...So you're saying that even though we did honestly forget them, we don't have to add them on now and can continue to pay them? I'd rather do that because well just because we intended to pay them. ..."

The amount involved is inmaterial, and the omission is an innocent oversight. Paying them off is a win win situation. You save paperwork for everyone involved.

[yomama]

The amount involved is inmaterial, and the omission is an innocent oversight. Paying them off is a win win situation. You save paperwork for everyone involved.

That's great to hear! I'd really rather do that than include them. Once we realized that creditor had been mistakenly omitted, we were afraid that if someone found out somehow that we owe them money that then we wouldn't get our discharge because they hadn't been included. Maybe I worry too much but I find myself thinking about all of the things that can go wrong... I just don't know what we'd do if our petition would be dismissed,