Reaffirmation?

[davil45]

I filed chapter 7 pro se a couple of weeks ago. I included a Kay Jewelers store card along w/ the rest of my credit cards as unsecured debt. Just today I received a packet from an law firm representing Kay w/ documents on reaffirming. Just to give some background on this Kay card...I bought my girlfriend an engagement ring in June/06 for $1500. Made the regular payments and then for Christmas I got her a watch and earrings for $500...kept making monthly payments. The balance currently sits at about $1000. Is this something I HAVE TO reaffirm? How should I treat these documents? Should I wait until my 341?

Thanks in advance for your comments/suggestions.

[DivorceRuinedMe]

I'm no expert but from much reading here I've come to learn that you don't HAVE to reaffirm stuff like a Kays card. If you don't reaffirm, you have the chance that they will come and get the merchandise but that doesn't often happen (from what I've read on here at least).

[CPO]

If you reaffirm, the you will be legally responsible for the debt in it's original terms.........as though you never filed........

If you do not reaffirm, the debt will be discharged, your legal obligation for the debt is gone.

But, that does not release any security that Kay has in the debt, assuming there is a security agreement in the original documents you signed with Kay.

Ask them for the agreement..........they may go away.........

Or, they may try to repossess whatever it is that you bought from them, if they want to or think they can claim a security interest.........

That still means they will have to serve you, sue you, win in court, get the judge to write off on the repo, serve you and arrange for pick up as to not "disturb the peace."

The idea being that you don't have to pay because your BK, but they get their stuff back.....

All for used jewelry.........worth what?

Or, they may just try and scare you into paying them, knowing all the while that it will be too costly and time consuming to sue and repo for used jewelry..........

That is what usually happens....

You could always tell them the ring went down the garbage disposal, the ear rings corroded and the watch does not work anymore........

CPO

[jal1129]

I am not so sure they have to sue you and win a judgement to repo security that you don't reaffirm.

The reaffirmation agreements I recieved from my lawyer had specific instructions that if I chose not to reaffirm to call a number they gave me to make arrangements to surrender the item.

I would think they might be more likely to come after a ring that is less than a year old and a watch and earrings that are less then 6 months old then say used furniture or a 5 year old computer. I don't know...I think it would be a roll of the dice as to if they would come after them or not. JMO

[CPO]

I am not so sure they have to sue you and win a judgement to repo security that you don't reaffirm.

The reaffirmation agreements I recieved from my lawyer had specific instructions that if I chose not to reaffirm to call a number they gave me to make arrangements to surrender the item.

I would think they might be more likely to come after a ring that is less than a year old and a watch and earrings that are less then 6 months old then say used furniture or a 5 year old computer. I don't know...I think it would be a roll of the dice as to if they would come after them or not. JMO

If you choose to give them the property, then by all means, go ahead...

If you choose not to, then they will have to sue you.

No one can just arrive at your home, walk in, and take as they please.......this is called a "breach of the peace." Big no, no.

That does not prevent a collector from knocking on your door and asking nicely............you ask them to leave, call the police and/or defend your property against trespass. Its that simple.

Collectors must act within the law.

Collectors would be immediately arrested (or worse) without the valid court documents describing the action to be taken and the service of law enforcement to effect the seizure........

This is not the old days....collectors must act lawfully. They could get themselves sued or "dead" real quick otherwise.

Do you think your car is repo'd without the valid documents and law enforcement notification required to effect such action? No.

And, your car is not normally stored inside your home, or on your body.....

It is a roll of the dice.....and it depends on what it is worth to the collector.

If you prefer to "give in" and give them the jewelry, then do so.

Don't beleive me? that's fine...just fully understand your options.

CPO

[DeadManCrawling]

Do you think your car is repo'd without the valid documents and law enforcement notification required to effect such action? No.

And, your car is not normally stored inside your home, or on your body.....

CPO

I know we're talking jewelry here but they can only take your car if they can get to it in a public place or open garage.

They can't legally force open a garage door or "break in" to get it. In Florida this protection is actually extended to carports as well, which are open in four directions but covered over the top.

If you leave a vehicle unattended anywhere else (work, grocery store, etc) it's up for grabs.

As far as the jewelry, I would reaffirm nothing. If the items are, in fact secured by the agreement, you may be able to make a deal to pay them less.

Maybe take the items to a different jeweler, get an idea of what they are really worth. It's unlikely they are worth what you actually paid.

In the heat of the moment, using terms like "diamond grade s3" they can enthrall you into believeing that your jewelry purchase will be the most important (and wisest) financial decision-ever.

Get another opinion, and if the items really ARE secured (read the agreement closely) maybe you can keep the items at a lower price. I imagine the court costs and collections efforts would virtually destroy their profit margin.

-dmc

[davil45]

Sooooo, should I do nothing and wait? lol

What I received is pretty much what Jal mentioned. Obviously, if worse comes to worse, I'm going to keep the jewelry and pay if that's what it comes to. But is this something I can wait to deal w/ in the 341 meeting? And keep in mind, i filed pro se.

Thanks again for your responses/comments. This forum has been huge w/ my dealing w/ bankruptcy. And I was afraid of filing pro se and hitting a snag...and here I am.

[jal1129]

You have plenty of time to think about it. It might not even be mentioned at the 341, nothing was said about my 2 reaffirmations at my 341.

Reaffirmations have to be filed with the court before your case is discharged, so you have a few weeks to think on it.

You may want to try making them an offer to keep the items for less cash, say $500 for example, they may or may not go for it. The only thing is they would probably want the cash up front and not in payments. I know others have done this. Try doing some searches and see what you can come up with. Just remember don't search on threads older than 10/05 as that was when the law changed.

[davil45]

Another reaffirmation question...

The car that I have is "signed" between my girlfriend and I (she's co-debtor). I listed it as a debt (as I have to list every debt w/ my name on it, correct?). My girlfriend is the one making payments on it...is this something that I have to reaffirm? There aren't any missed payments (status is current)...should I just send them the "Statement of Intent" form just in case?

Thanks again.