Fresh start with chapter 7?

[mark]

Someone please make my understand.


I am told that you must make less money than your monthly budget will be after you received discharge in Chapter 7 bankruptcy. What is the point of it. If I have less money than I need to pay my bills after bankruptcy I am in the same position as before bankruptcy. Where is the "fresh start"? Are you suppose to quit your job before you file and be forced to live in the streets untill you get a new job? I just don't get it? Why bother changing the laws. How broke do they want you to be? Quit Job, File Bankruptcy, Go on welfare. Is that what they mean by fresh start?

Mark

[InDebtInMD]

Well, when my wife and I were working on our budget/list of expenses I approached it this way:

for things like transportation and home maintenance (we are buying a house) I added in $$ to cover the major repairs that crop up every now and then. I figure that if I don't have something saved to cover major repairs or expenses than I'll have to go back into debt to pay for those things - not what I want to do.

I wish my wife and I had done this from the beginning - it was certainly educational.

also - we were vastly underestimating our other expenses such as groceries, medical expenses such as copays, etc.

[mark]

Thanks for info,

I found a post that showed what someone listed as living expenses and I think I can make it work. Do you know whether or not I can list the cost of buying land and building a house to live in if I know someone that is willing to finance me after bankruptcy?

Mark

[lilhelp]

Do you know whether or not I can list the cost of buying land and building a house to live in if I know someone that is willing to finance me after bankruptcy?

Mark

I'm in the same boat. I have a land contract waiting for me, but do I have to actually move in and start making those payments before I petition?

[mark]

I wish I knew the answer to that. I also have a contract waiting and I don't know if I am required to list that because it is in reality a agreement to enter into a contract. I am thinking that I should only state what I expect to pay in rent based on the size of home that I require and living expenses.

Other wise I would have to budget for rent and also for land payment untill I am able to build house. Is that acceptable for a Chapter 7 pettitioner?

[robivi3]

Right now, as it stands, it seems that the president has signed the BK legislation. According to HMM some of the provisions regarding home buyin three years prior and sooner take effect the day of the Presidents Signature and not 180 days from now.

Please consult an Attorney before entering into a Contract just prior to BK, you may really stand to lose more than land.

Remember neither the U.S. Trustee nor the U.S. BK Court have ever stated the BK is a "fresh start". It is not a fresh start, nothing is. It is not a do over, it is a tough "row to hoe" as the farmer says. "Fresh start" is Attorney lingo and advertising. The "fresh start" advertising is false.

Having read alot of history i understood fully the implications of "Bancarota" (bankruptcy, or broken bench) from reading about the Ancient Trade Guilds in a host of books and Michener novels. However mistakes in business and stupidity in personal finance got me into trouble and for an intellectual person I became really brain dead for a couple of years.

We are edging back to the day when BK will be shameful and bring problems to our families. However, unlike ancient times, we are not reduced to slavery (our children and wives are not sold off) and our lives are not forfeit. Don't shame the ancients though, Trade and Manufacture Guilds were very tight, secrets well guarded and the reputation of the Guild City by City had to be upheld, therefore BK laws were strict.

We are all in all still very fortunate, Good Luck to all who are starting down this road.

[mark]

My final post

Obviously, the system has beat me again. Thinking this whole time that the new laws would not go into affect untill late in the year I have been tricked into waiting too long and will probably find myself broke and homeless. I quess that I will be forced into being less than truthfull and hope for the best. I think the truth might be too much for them to handle anyway. After watching my father work his whole life hoping that he was going to have atleast a small retirement that he could enjoy. His company that he worked for 45 years filed bankruptcy and left him and thousands of others without any retirement at all. The embarassment and stress left him a broken shell of a man and within months complications from meds perscribe for stess and depression killed him. My Mother is now completly broke due to unsurmountable medical bills but refuses to file bk because of the embarrassment that you must face while being hounded by creditors at the 341 meetings. Of course the company emerged from bankrupcy under a new name recovered all of their assets and re-hired all new employees and started the whole process over again. I am sure that the business plan includes the repeat of bk in about another 20-25 years. While writing this I just received a call from an unsecured creditor making all kinds of threats of garnesments and judgements against me as though it was his personal money that is at stake. As a parent of two pre-teenages who grew-up in a world of big screen tvs, video games, cell phones, computors and internet preditors, cable tv, rap music, designer clothing, designer drugs and are facing trouble like this country has never seen, thanks to our wonderfull presidents personal agenda. My hopes and dreams for them has turned into constant fear and uncertianty for the future. I am scared too death for them. I am trying to pretend that all is ok here at home but, the next few weeks at all crashes in for us. I have put off BK because I hoped that we could recover somw how but now all our savings is gone and inflation has lapped me ten times in the race to the finish line. My fate is that of my Fathers but at a much faster pace. God have mercy on our soles and please take care of our children.

Thanks for the advise I now know that a "fresh start" really means "Broken dreams and dispair". I will fight to the end although I know defeat is inevitable. At least when I have nothing left I will have nothing more to lose. Ironicly, that sounds sort of peacefull in a weird sort of way.

Sincerely,

Mark

[robivi3]

Bro,
Please, you need to pick up. I mean this from the heart. This sort of bitterness and resignation to a life of despair will not help and is a bad example for your children. If you preach all of that at home, they are defeated in life already.

I have seen some financial hardship, most of it my own creation. My father had ups and downs. The man was seventy and would not take defeat, I still remember him speaking of the different things he was going to do, even in a retirement home (he once escaped and tried to buy a Mustang), in fact his Credit was approved. This man suffered horribly in the Jungles of the Pacific in WW2. I still remember him giving himself liver shots up to the late sixties because they ran out of needles and had to reuse them when he was Island hopping with Army Air Corps. To this day the damage is still with him.
He lost my mother to a long bout with cancer. He suffered financial reversals and i was there to see them. We went from a large tract of land with a big house and private schools for me in Tennessee to a 36 room house on Indian Creek in Miami Beach with a solid mahogany Chris Craft down to a two bedroom apartment in West Miami in a short time. this man never ever cried defeat in the time i knew him. in 1969 this man had over $100,000.00 in unsecured personal debt (he bought into a DC 3 to start a Travel Club with friends). his "friend", oddly named James Dick (he's long dead by now) took the dough and split to South Africa. He taught me that you do not know what tomorrow will bring.

Life is not over until the last breath. America has suffered good and bad Presidents and survived well as it will now.

I have constantly reminded my boys that if you think you are screwed, you are defeated before you begin. I have drilled into them that the job market will be competitive as will the business arena. I have encouraged them to learn some Chinese. Jobs go there yes, and create additional opportunities here. At last check my drilling had paid off as i see some books on China in their rooms. My oldest speaks and reads Hebrew, Greek and Latin and all three speak Spanish fluently as do I. Even though I have been through BK and SUFFERED LOSS FINANCIALLY DURING BK (2004) my oldest will still start College in September. His College is alreay paid by Bright Futures because I kept after him.

No matter what I am not defeated. Right now I have a home in need of repair (don't we all) and can't afford all the work right now. I need one new car for me and one for my son. However, I am fortunate and not being defeated look forward to God-willing resolving these issues BY FAITH by Summers end.

Tinroof, Dawn1970 and Minnymouth (who is currently undergoing a trial by fire) have all finished their BK's and are still in the fight. They got down, but they never admitted defeat. You want to see defeat? Go to Colombia and see Villages still suffering from the direct effects of Armero 15 years ago and still living in huts. On my worst day, I am blessed many times over. I have no bitterness (I did) for the Trustee, his Lawyer or anyone who caused me upset in my BK, they do their job, I do mine. I don't have time for it, my BK is over.

I have no fear for the future for boys because of President Bush or any other World leader. Their demise and defeat can only come from themselves.

[mark]

Bro? Just the sound of that makes me smile. Only my oldest brother, who has never managed to keep anything very long and probably the happiest person I know, calls me Bro. I always use Bro when I address my 25 year old step son who was incarcerated at age 18 and just released last year and struggles tremendously to find work. He has great hopes for the future and even the smallest of victories for him is progress. I wish that I could have been there for him when stumbled into a really bad situation that changed his life forever.

Of course, I don't preach gloom and doom to my children. I have to be strong for them even though inside I am falling apart. The thought of my Daughter being rediculed or embarassed due to my financial demise breaks my heart and brings tears to my eyes. In Georgia, we have a non-judicial foreclosure law so you get to have your name in the paper not once, but four times in consecutive weeks for all to see. In a small town like this one the children will have to suffer embarrassment and shame for something they had no control over. The legal system should be ashamed for their need to punish children for their parents mistakes.

I am taken by your genuine concern and heart felt words for people like me who are in very difficult circumstances. I am going to file my petition with the assistance of a lawyer because A) I need to find a place to live and be moved in about 4 weeks and with less money than I will need. B) I discussed BK with a lawyer a couple of weeks ago and he suggested that I file 13 and repay my unsecureds at 80% at a tune of $1250.00 a month and after rent he allowed me about $600.00 in total living expenses for a family of four with two dogs and two cats. He must be absolutely out of his freeking mind. I do not trust BK lawyers anymore.

I do have a question about assest & exemptions. Maybe you will know the answer.

If I am surrendering my home to foreclosure and I think the house would sell if given enough time for about 10,000.00 +- over the payoff. Is that an asset for the trustee to use to pay a priority creditor I owe. Or will the lender just short sell it to get his money and leave me no value to give up to the trustee? Can the Trustee seize it if he thinks it has value over and beyond the owed money? It seams to me that it is both an asset and a debt so how is that best handled?


Thanks again, You inspired me to get over feeling sorry for myself and get back to the business of solving my problem and moving on. I am just now thinking of a qoute from one of my favorite movies, The Shawshank Redemption. "I figure I got two choices, I can get busy living or I can get busy dying." You can't argue with that.

Mark

[Minnymouth]

Minnymouth here,
Chapter 7 a "fresh start" - don't bet your life on it!! Mine was a total "wipeout" at my expense. Unperfected title on home (due to stupidity error of bank and title company) "cost me everything". Everything I worked for for 40 years was taken and is to be sold.
But I will survive - because I am a survivor!
I am still fighting hard trying to get my home back thru a "buy-back" - YEAH - they'll make me pay for it all over again if I want it back.
Stay STRONG, Keep focused on what is happening, and who is doing what - concerning your bankruptcy.
If you have questions, ASK. If it seems like your lawyer is not working in "your" best interest - stay alert, question his actions. Trustee is "only doing his job"- but it won't be in "your best interest".
You will survive - you just may not LIKE THE OUTCOME!
Bankruptcy takes your "material things" - DON'T LET HIT DESTROY YOUR HEALTH TOO!
Going thru my Chapter 7 (and still pending) has made me physically ill. Bad nerves, asthma attacks, panic attacks, etc. Bankruptcy will effect you mentally, emotionally, physically.
Focus on your priorties in life, and then take it from there.
If you do that - you will be alright.
Now I am fighting mad over getting screwed over by the bank and the title company. I intend to sue.
I may not get to keep my present home - but I'll buy me another when I get thru sueing the bank and title company for their stupidity.
When you really look at it "it's all only materialistic! I would much rather have my health back, the rest I can replace eventually.
I'm a fighter, and a survivor, and I'm not going down easy for them.
This forum will stand with you, help keep you informed, and understand your fears and feelings of frustration.
They will also help you keep your head on straight.
GOOD LUCK

[mark]

Looking beyond this setback

Thanks minnymouth,

You are very kind to reassure me. I am taking a more optimistice view of things now. I am lucky because I have no real equity in my home to lose. I can protect most of my assets with exemptions so in my case it really will be a fresh start. I wish you well in your fight against the "Machine". If they screwed up they should have to pay. It is a tough battle when you are going against hugh corporations and I admire you for standing up to them.

I have a bunch of questions concerning my chapter 7 peititon that I am about to post in this forum. If you have a chance could you look at them and give me some experianced advice if you can. Any help I can get will go a long way.

Thanks and good luck. Let us know how things are going in your case. I love it when the underdog bites back.

mark

[robivi3]

You'll get through it.

You will get notices in the mail that will cause tempoary panic but which are part of the system. Do not panic. I have finally reached the point where I get mail from the box daily and it is now the Good 'Ol USA junk type along with Bills. I am over the phone jitters, you WILL answer your phone freely again in this life.

About twenty years ago my wife and I started a small clothing manufacture business. It was in North Miami, Central American labor did us in. Repo, foreclosure (we sold the house and had closed the sale ONE day before foreclosure!) and NO moeny for diapers, LITERALLY. No BK at that time. That was in '89.

We recovered, our CC rating was 770 prior to 9/11/2001. After that business tanked. Our distributors (high end collectibles, Star Trek, Alien, etc...) began dumping pre-manufactured items on ebay cheaper than I could by from them. What had done so well in the mid to late 90's died within months. I work in public transit as a Rail Technician so i have an extremely good salary to fall back on. Unfortunately the cash coming in had been so good that we had adjusted to it, it devestated us. In 2003 we filed BK. My wife is very stable and full of faith in God. I am very fortunate in this.

By 2003 I was near breakdown. We filed and were hounded by the Trustee who was sure we were hiding something. He finally broke thanks to good representation (my Attorney, bluff, bluff, bluff) at the last second as we were ready to be skewered and lose LITERALLY our underwear and socks he said "Your Honor the Trustee abandons all interest in Mr. and Mrs. blank blanks estate". The Trustees Attorney said, "congratulations sir, it is over, you will be discharged shortly". we had hidden nothing, we had been scrupulously honest in our schedules and were way over the exemption limit.

Today, I am working the OT I should have all along, happy in the job I should have been enjoying and certainly not killing myself like before. My bills are up to date. Credit issues are still being dealt with but life is going forward. You will get through it. You will be OK. You will feed your family and together you and your wife will be stronger and HAPPIER without the debt. Do not worry about rebuilding credit, worry about saving $$$$$$ once you get through it, it is awesome to have money to deal with things.

When you get down, we are here... and I have no plans to abandon the forum. BK is very hard on families.