Advice..

[Boli]

I have a friend who has been my best friend for most of my life. He is planning on filing Chap 7 in September. I am not a big promoter for any type of bankruptcy as I believe in fiscal responsibility(outside of EXTREME circumstances - Medical bills, etc) and have tried to talk him out of it as his debt is just junk debt he has run up by not being fiscally responsible and I think he should be making every attempt to repay the debt. He has not looked into any other finacial options as he is in the "Screw it" mindset. Additionally, he has hatched a plan to screw the CC for additional $$ and stuff as well. He has gone out and racked up an additional $10k on credit(Plasma TV, new computer, etc) and he is of the mindset that he will get to keep it all and a discharge will be given with no problems and all his stuff, cars, etc will remain in his possession. What are his odds of this happening? I am really worried that I am going to get a phone call from his wife stating that he is being investigated for CC fraud or worse, they lose everything. He also works for a bank and is convinced that they cannot fire him for filing Chap 7 according to law. I am not sure this is true as you become a financial risk when you file chap 7 and knowing how banks are, I would assume once they find out, he is going to be kicked to the curb. How bad is he setting himself up for here?
HELP!

[HHM]

First, the bank probably cannot fire him.

He is running a real risk depending on when he files BK. He would have to wait at least year from the last major purchase to even have a shot at having the debt discharged, but under the new law that comes into effect Oct 17, 2005, the look back period can be two years.

If your friend does what he is conteplating, he probably will probably be denied a discharge and possibly prosecuted for BK fraud.

[3131tj]

I have to say that this really irks me. The majority of people who file do it b/c they HAVE to as a last resort so when guys like this "friend" of yours come along - well, let's just say I hope he DOES get denied or have other problems. I don't usually wish bad things on people but it is people like this who make it difficult and adds to the stigma attached. I knew a guy in his mid-20's many years back who maxed out his cards and then filed with that same attitude. It was at a time that I was considering BK myself and I did everyting I could not to file. And I didn't - I struggled through (and it had nothing to do with rackingup my cards - I had been unemployed fro 10 months)!

Sorry about the rant and it is too bad that your friend has not listened to you...btw, even if the bank cannot legally fire him for BK, if they get wind of it they may find another reason to let him go.

[Boli]

His actions are irking me pretty bad as well. I agree totally with the last reply and feel much the same way. Did you ever find out if your friend who did this same thing got in legal trouble over doing this? If so, please post as I hope to print this thread out and take it to him to show him what he is getting himself into. Any additional replies are welcome.
I do not know what else to do for him at this point.

[3131tj]

I am reading over "Bankruptcy: Is It the Right Solution to Your Debt Problems?" and meeting with an att'y today and even though my debt/income would mean I would have to live until the age of about 150 years to pay it all off at current interest rates I am STILL hesitant! This is such scary stuff. And your friend is married? With kids? Shame on him!!

As for the guy I knew he was not a friend, just a guy I knew in my neighborhood and I honestly do not know how it all worked out for him. He moved soon after he spoke to me about it. I do recall that he had maxed out his cards in a short space of time and from what I have learned I cannot imagine that he did NOT run into trouble. This was in the mid-80's in Boston during the real estate crash and I think he just wanted to take advantage of the fact that EVERYONE was filing back then.

If your friend has done his homework, I cannot imagine how he thinks he will keep all his stuff. The booklet I am reading has been a HUGE help (along with this forum and hopefuly today's meeting!) and recommend it to anyone, I just don't know if I can post the info here or not. I downloaded it online for $15 - worth every penny!

Btw, has this guy met with an attorney yet? That might just burst his pie-in-the-sky bubble!!

[Boli]

From what I know he has not even consulted an attorney as of yet. He is going on what 1 or 2 of his other friends who have filed told him as well as what he has heard here and there. I do not get the impression from him that he has covered his bases on this. It smacks of trouble up one side and down the other. You make your bed....

[cloudship]

Boli - your friend is probably facing a lot more problems than you are probably seeing right now. What you are describing sounds a lot like what went through my mind when everything got to be too much, and what I have seen and read about others goig through this process.

Trying to talk him out of bankruptcy or throw all these negative ideas about bankruptcy at him is oinly going to make it worse. He is angry, he feels betrayed, he feels like everyone is out there trying to take advantage of him, and that no one has any appreciation for what he is going through. Right now all he sees is trying to get back, any way he can, at those who he perceives have doen this to him. Many of us go through this.

The best thing you could do right now to help him would be to talk with, listen, offer a sympathetic ear, and most importantly, give him a glimmer of hope. In many ways, that's what bankruptcy is really about - giving those people who are at a point now that they know they simply can't hang on any more, can't take any more, and give them hand when they most need it, so that they can get back to functioning again. This is one case where Ithink your best bet is to not try to disuade him, but rather to help him calm down and start thinking rationally again.

[3131tj]

He has not looked into any other finacial options as he is in the "Screw it" mindset. Additionally, he has hatched a plan to screw the CC for additional $$ and stuff as well. He has gone out and racked up an additional $10k on credit(Plasma TV, new computer, etc) and he is of the mindset that he will get to keep it all and a discharge will be given with no problems and all his stuff, cars, etc will remain in his possession.

cloudship - in most situations I would agree with you but the fact that this person has not even considered other options and has deliberately planned to screw the cc companies by buying all this stuff says a lot about him. Believe me, I am in no position to, nor do I want to, judge this guy, but he has brought this upon himself - no? Did YOU intentionally max out cards or "Plan" your BK by buying lots of luxury items? Probably not. Just my 2 cents

[Boli]

Agree with last poster. He is not feeling betrayed..He is looking for a free pass. He thinks this is his get out of jail free/collect $200 pass. He is thinking with his "I can get out of this and smile all the way to the bank" brain. He is not angry, rather he is quite happy about the cards he thinks is going to be dealt to him. He is actually bragging about it and has been for the last 2 times I have tried to be his friend about this situation and be there for him.
I just got a call from him about an hour ago. His 52' plasma HDTV flatcreen got delivered yesterday. He actually was calling me to see if I would help him set it up along with his new computer. "No, I have to work late." is the response he got from me.
Unbelievable.

[cloudship]

I don't want to get into an argument about the validity of bankruptcy, too many of us, myself included, are having a hard enough time dealing with the emotions now, let alone going back to how we felt when we first were experiencing financial problems.

I just want to say to anyone out there who IS considering bankruptcy and is dealing with the emotional turmoil of financial difficulties, Bankruptcy does NOT mean that you are a loser, fool, scam artist (man I really blew a gasket at that one) or cheat. Yes, there road is hard, and yes, it is possible that you will have people who think that way. But remember that you are doing what is the best thing for you to do. The fact that you are willing to go through that stress in order to do what has to be done is itself proff that you are making the right decision and should be proud, not ashamed, of declaring bankruptcy.