Question regarding budget & income

[TheBrokeCouple]

Hi everyone,

I just can't believe what a help you all have been to me so far. Hubby and I are wrapping up any purchases, charges etc this month. After tomorrow, all purchases will be with cash..no more credit!! Yeah!!

I've been working on preparing our list of creditors.
Town & Country Van
110 South Main Street Kelly BB $18,000
PO BOX 1395 Owe: $24,000
South Bend, Indiana 46624-1395


Aurora Loan Services Home Mortgage
10350 Park Meadows Drive $72,400 (tax appraisal)
Littleton, Colorado 80124 Owe: $82,000
payments current


The Collection Company
Hospital Laboratories Bill
202 W. Van Buren St. Balance Due: $965.57
PO BOX 206
Columbia City, Indiana 46725


SMO Brace Orthotics
Orthotics & Prosethetics Balance Due: $ 882.00



Physician Services Physician Services
Balance Due: 102.40



Athena Diagnostics Genetic Testing
Four Biotech Park Balance Due: 1678.00
377 Plantation Street
Worcester, MA 01605
Acct# 07062415

The Collection Company Laboratories Bill
202 W. Van Buren St. Balance Due: $ 1453.09




Bank of America Credit Card
PO BOX 15726 balance due: $14,800.99
Wilmington, DE 19886-5726 Interest Rate: 24.99%


Attorney Fees
Balance Due: $2262.00


Nelnet Loan Services Student Loan
PO BOX 2970 Balance Due: $24,607.19
Omaha, NE 68103-2970

Chase Bank Credit Card
Cardmember Services Balance Due: $ 8,915.00
PO BOX 94014 APR: 29.99%
Palatine, IL 60094-4014


Chase Bank Credit Card
Cardmember Services Balance Due: $ 9825.38
PO BOX 94014 APR: 29.99%
Palatine, IL 60094-4014


Walmart Discover Credit Card
PO BOX 960024 Balance Due: $ $3200.00
Orlando, Florida 32896-0024




Question: Do you put the address that the payment gets sent to, or their "main" address?

I've prepared a statement of our monthly expenses (minus the cc debt & medical bills etc). This totals $3308.82 per month. We are within our limits of housing/utlities for family of 4 in Indiana. The problem....is that I do not make enough money to cover these expenses every month JUST working my regular hours. ($4010.00 gross monthly) I COULD cover these expenses if I work an extra shift per week.

Question: Is the trustee going to say "you can't cover your bills, isn't this how you got into debt??" Hubby is not currently working, but is looking for a job, and has a good lead but will not know for about 2 weeks. This could add $1257.00 (gross) to our monthly budget, and I believe still keep us under the mean income level for Indiana (67000).

Can they MAKE you trim your expenses? such as giving up our van? or cell phone?

I took these expenses from our electronic banking bill pay...this is a true reflection of our bills each month...the NIPSCO bill would be our monthly budget amount.

Any thoughts?

House Payment: $ 870.38

Electric Bill: $75.00

City Utilities: $48.00

NIPSCO: $125.00

Auto Insurance: $59.00

Van Payment: $433.44

Verizon: (internet, cable, phone) $120.00

Life Insurance: $60.00

Cell Phone $123.00

Student Loan $110.00

Medications: $325.00

Food $400.00

Personal Needs $125.00

Gas: $175.00

Health & Dental $110.00

Savings $150.00

Total $3308.82

[TheBrokeCouple]

I forgot to say

Thank You!! For any thoughts on my loooooong post. Thanks for your patience.

TheBrokeCouple

[danaf]

I think I read recently in another post on a similar topic that if you come up way below the means test and your schedules, it would raise a red flag to the trustee (or something like that). I'm not sure what the consequences would be. The ideal is to be a little over, like $50 or something, but less than $100....so they don't push you into a 13. I'll try to find that other post -

But your hubby getting another job - it sounds like that could be a catalyst for the trustee to push you into a 13 because at that point, you could pay your monthly living expenses no problem and have some left over. So if you are definately planning on filing - I'd hold off on that until after your 341 mtg.

Is there anyway you could sell your van and buy something cheaper with a bit of a lower monthly payment?

I'll try to find that other post because I think it will help you.

[danaf]

here it is

http://www.bkforum.com/showthread.php?t=18317

[ameliabedilia]

What is your net take home? That is what matters for the budget.
Yes they can make you give something up if they think it will be an "undue hardship"- I think that's what they call it. It might be in your best interest to surrender your car and get something with a cheaper payment, especially since you are upside down on it. If you can even out your budget, you probably won't have to do this.
They might think your cell phone is a little high.

Also- are you putting money in some type of regular savings account? If so, you can't do that. That amount could be subtracted from your monthly expenses to even out your income/expenses. They really want it at + or - $100.
Also, is your husband on unemployment?

I am by no means an expert- I haven't even had my 341 yet, so if I am giving wrong information, someone please let me know!

[keepmine]

I just can't believe what a help you all have been to me so far. Hubby and I are wrapping up any purchases, charges etc this month. After tomorrow, all purchases will be with cash..no more credit!! Yeah!!

If you are truely going to cash, you better schedule some extra shifts to cover the household budget shortfall.
What are your intentions with the house and van?

[SinkingFast]

You pay medical and dental insurance premiums out of pocket?? Or are they deducted from your paycheck??

The figure from Schedule I that gets moved over to Schedule J is your Net monthly income. If you pay insurances at work thru payroll deduction, that will be accounted for on Schedule I.

If you come up a lot negative, the Trustee might deny a Reaffirmation Agreement on your van. But that doesn't mean the Trustee will take it either. Depends on how much equity you have and if you can cover that with your Vehicle Exemption.

Pretty much all the Lender is gonna care about is if you continue making your van payments on time every month. They're in the business of lending money, not owning vehicles for sale.

List all contact addresses you have for any acct. If a Collections Agency sends you letter for an acct, list that address too.

You list the primary Creditor, contact address, acct number, and $$$ amount first. Right below that you can list another contact address naming the Creditor above. Our attny said "Representing Chase". You can say "On Behalf of Chase" if you want. You don't have to list a $$$ amount for successor contacts listed for the same acct.

Our attny listed the addresses payments were sent to, other contact addresses from bills, addresses on letters we received from our Creditors, and any Collections Agencies or Law Firms that the debts had been moved to.

List everyone so you don't get the "We didn't get notified" defense arguement.

[TheBrokeCouple]

So...our plan is to keep the van and the house if possible. We have another vehicle, but optimally, it would be best to keep both vehicles. This is really our only asset besides our home. It's a 2001 Saturn, 144,000 miles. We have furniture, clothing, personal items,home computer, no luxury items.

We pay our healthcare premiums out of my check. Yes, we could stop our savings deposit if that's a no, no. I just thought the trustee would want to see a plan for savings. Of course we could adjust the flexible things like food, and personal items.

I guess I have not looked at these I & J schedules. I should review these...I think they're on a sticky note?

Our net income would be much less...obviously, around $3007.00 per month.

I've found the attorney we want to use. My sister and brother in law used them and were very happy. They have online forms you can print off and fill out. My hope was to have ALL of the legwork done before we even go in, so when he asks...we can just hand over the retainer and paperwork and tell him to file it for us.

We want to wait the 90+ days for any charges, plus have a chance to file our taxes for 2007, and use our tax return to replace our roof on the house. We would hope to file sometime in February.

Also...what about our special needs children? Does the fact that our medications are so high each month make a difference? Could that be considered a special circumstance...our attorney's website reccomended a letter from the doctor regarding their care.

We want to avoid c13 if possible (for obvious reasons).

One more thing....are you able to include stafford student loans in a chapter 13?? I know you can't in a chapter 7. I owe about $24,000 from my education 11 years ago. If not, I'm sure I'll be paying on those for the rest of my life...**sigh**

Thanks for all of your answers, I appreciate all of the piece of mind this forum brings me.

TheBrokeCouple

[keepmine]

I'd not reaffirm a high mileage vechicle that I owed $24K on.
Is the equity in your home close to the loan amount? I know tax appraials and FMV can be 2 different animals.

[RickInMich]

Sinkingfast,

Can you explain on the addresses again. I'm stuck on that also. Specifically, on credit cards. Do I use the address the payment would be sent to? On most of our statements, it says something along the line of "Send payment to xxx." Then on that same statement it will say, "For billing inquiries, send to xxx." That's a different address.

So I just don't know what to list for address. Does everyone just use the "Send payment to" address?

Thank you so much.

[ameliabedilia]

Sinkingfast,

Can you explain on the addresses again. I'm stuck on that also. Specifically, on credit cards. Do I use the address the payment would be sent to? On most of our statements, it says something along the line of "Send payment to xxx." Then on that same statement it will say, "For billing inquiries, send to xxx." That's a different address.

So I just don't know what to list for address. Does everyone just use the "Send payment to" address?

Thank you so much.

I used the addresses on the credit report. I was told by a lawyer that that is how they do it.

[TheBrokeCouple]

I'm sorry if you misunderstood....the Saturn is paid for. We own it outright. The van is a 2005 town & country with 42000 miles.

If we don't reaffirm it...we can make the payments still, but then walk away at anytime and give the van back if we want?? If we satisfy the loan, then will still own it free and clear? Am I understanding correctly?

Thank You,
TheBrokeCouple

[keepmine]

I'm sorry if you misunderstood....the Saturn is paid for. We own it outright. The van is a 2005 town & country with 42000 miles.

If we don't reaffirm it...we can make the payments still, but then walk away at anytime and give the van back if we want?? If we satisfy the loan, then will still own it free and clear? Am I understanding correctly?

Thank You,
TheBrokeCouple

You understand correctly.

[SinkingFast]

Sinkingfast,

Can you explain on the addresses again. I'm stuck on that also. Specifically, on credit cards. Do I use the address the payment would be sent to? On most of our statements, it says something along the line of "Send payment to xxx." Then on that same statement it will say, "For billing inquiries, send to xxx." That's a different address.

So I just don't know what to list for address. Does everyone just use the "Send payment to" address?

Thank you so much.

Our attny listed them all.

The payments address. The "for billing inquiries" address. Any other addresses that were listed on the bills. Plus all addresses we had from "reminder" and "threatening" letters. AND, if accts had been turn over to 3rd parties, the Collections Agencies were listed too.

It would be like:

Chase Acct # $$$ amount
Mailing Address

Representing Chase Acct #
Chase Payments Dept.
Mailing Address

Representing Chase Acct #
Chase OverNight Payments
Mailing Address

Representing Chase Acct #
XYZ Collections
Mailing Address

And so on.

Also, keep in mind,............ Most of the big Creditors receive Electronic Notification direct from the BK Court. For many, that's their preferred method of contact. Chase, Citi, BoA, HSBC, etc.

Our attny went ahead and had notices mailed to every address we could provide for any Creditor. He said, "I want to avoid the we didn't get notified defense".

Our attny's been practicing for 20+ years and I guess he's seen it all.

[SinkingFast]

You wanna document, document, document as much as you can. It's just a CYA to prevent questions being asked and further probing.

If you're up front in providing info, it makes your case go smoother.

I'm guessing by the attny telling you to get a letter from your doctor, he/she thinks your medical expenses might be questionably high. So get the letter from the doctor. An ounce of prevention sure beats a pound of cure from the Trustee!

If you file your income taxes and spend your refund prior to filing BK next spring, be sure to save all receipts for where the money goes. Trustees are particularly interested in income tax refunds in the Spring. And they can get rather testy about Debtors spending Refunds prior to filing BK.

I'm a big believer in saving receipts. Lots of folks here will tell you it's not necessary, but it's very helpful.

In your case, receipts might be needed to justify medical expenses. Drugs and such, you can get copies from the Pharmacy or the Doctor's office. But if you need OTC's as well,......... Bandages, ointments, creams, etc,.......... You'll wanna save those receipts. Medical also includes Tylenol, Advil, Pepto, and anything else you normally buy.