Filling out the Sch. F

I have quite a few accounts that have gone on to outside collections. From everything I've gathered, I need to list both the original creditor and the collection agencies. So, I listed the original creditor first, with their account # and the amount owed. then following it I listed the collection agency with their account #, under consideration I listed that they were representing "Original creditor" and left the amount as zero.

Does that sound right? Nolo's book said I should put ditto (") marks in the amounts, but I put zeros.

I know I read somewhere recently about how someones filing was looked at because their debt looked double what it was because they listed the amounts with all their entries.

I made sure everything was in alphabetical order, like the papers state but when I listed the collection agency, I listed them as "collection agency for original creditor name" and did not list an amount. My trustee didn't say anything about it and we are discharged now.

My original creditors are in very close to alphabetical order. I missed a few that I'm adding to the end. The collection agencies are listed right below them.

ABC Co.
LMN collection agency
BYE co.
xyz collections.


I really don't want to re-type these since there is no good forms to fill out and I can't save the docs from the BK court websites. :(

Yeah, it was confusing for me too until I looked at some cases on PACER. Original creditors were listed as the Nolo book suggests, but "assignees" (collection agencies) and secondary addresses were listed as genseeker suggests.

For collection agencies, I put the account number, name and address of the collection agency in the left column, and the words "Collection Agency for XYZ Company" in the middle column. No $ amount.

For additional addresses going to the same creditor, in the left column, I only put "Additional notification for XYZ Company" which is the original creditor, and in the middle column I put the secondary address for the original creditor. No $ amount, no account number.

It was kind of confusing but that was how the well-filed cases had it done. The clerk said something about matching schedules to the matrix you file, and if you look at it that way it makes a lot of sense.

P.S. Don't worry about having something out of alphabetical order. They LIKE it alphabetical, but they'll figure it out if it's not.

Oh, and I forgot to add: put all your creditor addresses, etc in a text file. Then it's all copy/paste, copy/paste. Still tedious as hell but not like having to retype everything.

Check with you court about the matrix because here, the matrix absolutely had to be alphabetical. The clerk even asked me if I was sure my matrix was alphabeticalcsince I filed Pro se

I already turned in my matrix with my original filing. I have to have my schedules turned in by the 18th (Tuesday). I don't have time to look through PACER at this point. And since their Adobe deals suck, I'm going to go ahead and turn it in as is tomorrow, as I probably won't have time to re-type the whole thing without taking tomorrow off from work.

I was able to find this: (#4 states it is not required by law to have the creditors listed in alphabetical order)

Official Form 6
continued
INSTRUCTIONS FOR COMPLETING SCHEDULE F
CREDITORS HOLDING UNSECURED NONPRIORITY CLAIMS
1) Schedule F requires the debtor to list creditors holding unsecured nonpriority claims, as
of the date of the filing of the petition. Unsecured debts are those for which there is no lien on
the debtor’s property. If the debtor has no creditors holding unsecured nonpriority claims to
report on this schedule, the debtor should check the box provided at the top of this form and
proceed to the next schedule.
2) Unsecured nonpriority claims include all claims a creditor may have that are neither
secured nor entitled to priority status under section 507 of the Bankruptcy Code. Generally, this
schedule is used for the majority of the debts a debtor seeks to have discharged.
3) It is crucial for the debtor to list all remaining creditors on this form, because the debtor
may be unable to receive a discharge of debt if the creditor was not properly scheduled and had
no notice of the bankruptcy. 11 U.S.C. § 523(a). Claims listed on Schedules D and E should not
be listed again on this form.
4) Although not required by law, it is strongly urged that the debtor place the creditors on
this form in alphabetical order. Continuation sheets should be used if more space is needed.
5) The most important aspect of this form is the listing of the creditors and their complete
addresses, including zip codes. Debtors should include their account numbers with each creditor,
such as credit card account, department store account, etc., if applicable. If multiple addresses
exist, the debtor should repeat the creditor's name and list each address in the spaces provided.
Debtors should not repeat the description and amount of the debt, but note that the debt is the
"same as above" or similar appropriate statement. (Multiple addresses should be included in the
mailing list or mailing matrix, using a separate entry and repeating the creditor's name for each
address.)
6) Debtors are instructed to place an "X" in the column labeled "Codebtor" if an entity other
than a spouse may be jointly liable on a claim. Debtors filing a joint petition should designate
whether the husband, wife, both of them, or the marital community may be liable on each claim,
by placing a "H," "W," "J," or "C" in the column labeled "Husband, Wife, Joint, or Community."
7) Debtors are directed to state the date the claim was incurred and the consideration for the
claim in the space provided. In other words, debtors should state what the debtor received in
exchange for the claim such as, “goods purchased” or “extension of credit,” or “medical
treatment.”
Official Form 6
continued
8) If a claim is subject to setoff, the debtor is required to state that fact on the form. A
"setoff" is when part of the debt owed by the debtor to the creditor is "canceled out" by a preexisting
debt owed by the creditor to the debtor. Since certain pre-petition setoffs taken by a
creditor may be subject to recovery by the bankruptcy estate, it is important that all setoffs be
accounted for on this form.
9) If the claim is contingent, unliquidated, or disputed, the debtor should place an "X" in one
or more of the appropriate columns. Otherwise, leave these columns blank. General definitions
of the terms "contingent,” “unliquidated,” and “disputed" are provided below.
Definitions:
Contingent Claim --- A claim is contingent if the debtor's liability depends on the
occurrence of a certain event, such as where the debtor is a cosignor on another person's loan,
and that person fails to pay.
Unliquidated Claim --- An unliquidated claim is a claim the amount of which is not
completely certain. The claim exists, but the amount is presently unknown. For example, a
debtor may have been at fault in a car accident, but there is no judgment yet establishing the
amount of the debtor's liability. The debtor will have to estimate the amount of such a claim and
designate it as unliquidated.
Disputed Claim --- A claim is disputed when the debtor and creditor do not agree on the
debtor’s liability or on the amount of the debt.
These three columns are particularly important a creditor in a chapter 11 case in
determining whether to file a proof of claim. 11 U.S.C. § 1111(a).
10) The stated amount of each claim need not be exact, but it should be as precise as possible.
If the only figure attainable is an approximation, this should be noted on the form, such as by
adding “approx.” after the amount.
11) Debtors whose debts have been sent to collection agencies or attorneys for collection may
wish to add an appendix to this schedule listing the names and addresses of these entities or
individuals, to ensure that they receive notice of the bankruptcy and refrain from attempting to
collect debts. 11 U.S.C. § 362(a). (Any collection agency and every attorney collecting a debt on
behalf of a creditor should also be listed in the mailing list or mailing matrix.)
12) Debtors should place a subtotal at the bottom of each continuation sheet and the total on
the last continuation sheet. Debtors should report the total of all claims listed on this schedule in
the Summary of Schedules in the column labeled "Liabilities."

And this is from my states BK court website stating the instructions for the Creditor Matrix. I don't see anything about it being in alpha order, so I am going to assume I'm safe. (Not that I won't call in the AM tomorrow and ask, lol)

Creditor Matrix - Paper Format

A creditor matrix contains each creditor's name and mailing address. This information is used for noticing and claims information.

In order to ensure that the cases you file can be properly read by our scanners, we ask that you observe the following guidelines.

1. Lists must be typed in one of the following standard typefaces or print styles:

o Courier

Note: Other typefaces may be compatible with our system but Courier is the only typeface that has been tested.

2. Lists should be typed on a single page in a single column rather than in three columns (see example matrix ).

3. The name and address of each creditor cannot be more than 5 lines. If a record is more that 5 lines, the 6th line will be combined with line 5 and the 7th or 8th lines will be truncated.

4. Each line may contain no more than 40 characters including blanks.

5. Names and addresses should be left justified .

6. Spaces in the first position of a line will cause an exception report for that creditor record.

7. Special characters such as ~, ½, or ^ will cause problems. The # and & characters have not been reported to cause errors.

8. Account numbers or "attention" lines should be placed on the second line of the name/address.

9. City, state, and ZIP code must be on the last line.

10. Nine digit ZIP codes must be typed with a hyphen separating the two groups of digits.

11. All states must be two-letter abbreviations.

12. Each creditor must be separated by at least one blank line.

13. Do not include page numbers, headers, footers, etc.

14. Lists must be typed so that no letters are closer than 1/2 inch from any edge of the paper.

15. DO NOT include the following people (who were formerly required on creditor matrixes). They will be retrieved automatically by the computer for noticing.

* Debtor
* Joint Debtor
* Attorney for the Debtor(s)

Keep in mind that different bk courts can have different processes and requirements. What may be required in one court doesn't mean it's required in all courts.

If you are filing pro se, then it's crucial to find out the particular 'oddities' that your court may require, such as having to place all creditors in strict alphabetical order.

You know, since you already turned in your matrix, the worst that can happen is that you turn in your schedules, and they either issue a Notice of Deficiency (clerks don't like it) or the trustee asks you to redo it (he doesn't like it) and you have 15 more days at the very least to get it in. Or they take it as is because it is substantially in compliance. Either way, you'll get it in on time by the 18th and that seems like the main goal right now.

Don't worry about looking through PACER; I suggested it because I thought you still had some time and were trying to get it *perfect*. I don't know if you've looked at any other pro se cases, but don't worry too much about it: if you're using the official forms that seems like the biggest thing they care about.

In the Middle District of Florida, it seems that deficiency notices go out the same day that the offending document is filed; in other words the clerks reject it right as they are entering it into the system, and that's that. I have not seen any delayed deficiency notices (like a doc was filed Wednesday and a deficiency notice went out Friday); it seems 100% the same day. I don't know if the District of Nevada is the same, but chances are good that if you check PACER three days or so after you file your schedules, that's enough time to see if they cleared the clerks. If you don't see any deficiency notices by then, you're probably good. Good luck!

Well, I filed everything today and the clerk didn't even flinch. Doesn't mean they won't, but so far so good.

Good luck!!! :)