I don't know where to start :(

I was referred here from another forum that I am a member of. My husband and I have been in over our heads for years now and he just won't face the reality that we NEED to file. We owe 63,000$ to a private student loan company (part of the reason we got so in over our heads), 60,000 to bank of america and capitol one, and then at least another 10,000 to various credit card companies. We also have a stupid timeshare that I did NOT want and then 75,000 on a house that has been nothing but a money pit (another reason we are in this mess). I don't know where to turn right now - I have severe depression and so does my husband - we have been fighting the insurance company on medical bills also so we can't even get treated for our depression. We have two children under the age of 2 (and had lots of medical bills for that too). The thing is up until now we have ALWAYS been able to make all of our payments and on time. Now though we just can't afford the daycare costs and all the debt. We are paying out at least 3,000 more each month than we make. (and even if we gave up the cable, internet, and cell phones, it wouldn't even put a dent in it)
I guess I am rambling, but where should I start on this forum? I know I need to talk to an attorney, but I am scared and hoping to get some support before doing that. I appreciate any input :)

Hi Marcie! I really hope it gets better for you soon. There's no shame in filing; it sounds like you've done all you can do and then some. Yes, definitely see an attorney, but read through the posts on this board and whatever bk resources you can find, so that when you go in you can ask good questions that pertain to you and your specific situation, as opposed to letting the consult be Bankruptcy 101. Nothing wrong with that, it's just as long as you're there, educating yourself will enable you to get a lot more out of it, as well as help you to determine if he's the right atty for you. Many bankruptcy consults are free, so go to as many as you like to see which one is right for you. Good luck to you!!!

Realizing that filing is inevitable was the hardest part of the whole process for me.

Then next thing you need to do is sit down and make a budget. This will come in handy for you at your pre-bankruptcy class, at your meeting with lawyers and in figuring out if bankruptcy is really the best answer right now.

To make your budget list all your income. List all your monthly bills. The ones that won't be discharged and are inevitable in life. Gas, electric, car payment (are you upside down on the cars? Do you want to keep them?), morgage or rent (you will need to decide if you want to keep the house or not), groceries, student loans (sorry nondischargable). Be sure to list absolutely everything. Subract this list from you income.

Hopefully their is not a deficiency. If their is you need to start analyzing your budget for places to trim expenses and increase income. If you can't pay your day to day bills without your unsecured debt, do not file bankruptcy yet. Only file after you have a plan for a balanced post bankruptcy budget.

If their is money left over. First make sure you listed absolutely everything. There is a link to a calculator in the the "links for members section" to help you remember all of them. Then list out all of your unsecured debts such as credit cards, payday loans, personal loans. Would the extra you have each month pay those debts off in less than five years? The answer is probably no.

Show this all to your husband or better yet put it together with your husband. It will quickly be very clear if you have any other choice but to file bankruptcy.

Then just start reading. Their is a wealth of knowledge here and tons of helpful, educated people.

For you to state out loud that you are spending $3,000 per month over and above your income is your first step to getting things resolved. You have a lot going on and on the plate. Time to regroup. Physically sit down with your husband at the table and take the time to make a complete list of all your bills and income. The shock of it all hopefully will propel you to get the financial help you need. That $3,000 is your downward spiral which is going to get worse if you don't do something about it now. You will create more debt for yourselves trying not to file. Investigate your options and try to work as a team to resolve the situation. It is not going to be easy and you have your hands full with the children.

Call and get a free consultation with a BK attorney. Take with you the above listing (monthly payments, bill totals (all bills, utilities included), pay stubs, sources of income, and a listing of assets (stocks, checking accounts, savings accounts, house, boats, cars, etc.) and you will be advised exactly where you stand and what you can or can't do from there.

Best of luck to you but you are in that downward spiral which will not stop - act now before you go down further.

What is your combined income? What state are you in?

What is your combined income? What state are you in?

It varies depending on if my husband works overtime or not, but I would say most times it is 3100$ per month (IL) take home pay that is.

Hi Marcie! I just wanted to chime in about your depression issues...I also suffer from depression issues that have gotten way worse lately (partially from the bankruptcy and partially from an endocrine disorder that I suffer from). I've had a hard time getting an appointment to see a psychiatrist to tweak my meds, and the primary care physician always has the same answer--increase what I'm on now.

Anyway, on another forum that I am involved with, one of the girls gave me the advice to go to the ER, because they HAVE to treat you by federal law, regardless of your ability to pay. And they always have a psychiatrist on-call, so you can see that person if you feel that you need meds.

I also have a 1-year-old daughter, and my insurance didn't cover all of the costs of her birth, so we rolled that in with our bankruptcy (why not, KWIM?). I just went to the medical system that I owed to see my PCP, and they didn't say anything to me when I registered--just took my co-pay and that was that.

Good luck!

Hi Marcie! I just wanted to chime in about your depression issues...I also suffer from depression issues that have gotten way worse lately (partially from the bankruptcy and partially from an endocrine disorder that I suffer from). I've had a hard time getting an appointment to see a psychiatrist to tweak my meds, and the primary care physician always has the same answer--increase what I'm on now.

Anyway, on another forum that I am involved with, one of the girls gave me the advice to go to the ER, because they HAVE to treat you by federal law, regardless of your ability to pay. And they always have a psychiatrist on-call, so you can see that person if you feel that you need meds.

I also have a 1-year-old daughter, and my insurance didn't cover all of the costs of her birth, so we rolled that in with our bankruptcy (why not, KWIM?). I just went to the medical system that I owed to see my PCP, and they didn't say anything to me when I registered--just took my co-pay and that was that.

Good luck!

Thanks ming - I don't know though, the ER bills are ridiculous - We already owe 3,000$ ++ for ONE visit, but I guess we are so far gone now anyway.

One of the best quotes I've read on this site has been:

"Don't be ashamed at filing bankruptcy. It's a business decision. Some of the richest people in the U.S. file bankruptcy because it makes better financial sense."

Many feel that filing is "giving up". Once I found out more about it, the more I can't beleive I waited SO long. I was in a downward spiral like you are and nearly lost my house because of it.

Do some research and most importantly TALK about.

Marcie, hey, if you need the services, get 'em now, and file later! I can honestly tell you that when I had my daughter (and had my gallbladder out 7 weeks later), I knew I was going to file, and those expenses went on the bankruptcy. And you can apply those medical bills to your bankruptcy, so don't hesitate to get help if you and your husband need it. I never made any payments on those expenses, and like I told you, I am still able to get services at that health system even though they were included on my bankruptcy. My husband doesn't have insurance, and I'm constantly pressuring him to see someone about getting some sort of an antidepressant, because in our area, Target and Walmart both have 30 day supplies of generic Zoloft and Prozac for $4.00 per month, so if the monthly cost of drugs is an issue, that's always a possibility, too.

And isitreal is so right. You are not alone. Our glorious local paper takes the liberties of printing names of those who file for bankruptcy, and I bet I see someone I know every single week. And that's just the ones in my local circuit court that I know about--I'm sure there's plenty of others. And if you Google celebrities who have gone bankrupt, you will be amazed at the names on there (Tom Petty = my favorite singer ever. And if he's been bankrupt, well, I like him even more! ;) ). It's just a bump in the road; you and your husband will survive, no matter how bad it seems right now. Before we did it, I used to tell myself that no one has ever died from going bankrupt, right? You will survive. The worst day for me was not deciding to file--I knew that was probably going to happen, and had known for years, so I think I had this acceptance toward it for a long time. The worst day was the day that it was in the newspaper. You'd hope that people would have the tact not to say anything, but as soon as I walked into work, a part-timer made this comment about how I was a "local celebrity". I felt terrible, horrible, awful, because who else was thinking of me and thinking this? I cried and cried that day. But that day passed, as will your hardest day. Right now, we're waiting for our discharge (our 341 meeting was about 5 weeks ago now), and honestly, our lives have changed only for the better. And yours will, too. ((Hugs!))

Oh, and your student loans...yes, the crappy thing is that you cannot discharge them. Mine are also with a private loan company--my credit report actually says that the ones that were government-issued loans are paid off, but they were just transferred to the private loan company.

But, your student loans will automatically go into deferment when you file, so at least you can have that 6-month reprieve to get caught up a little bit.

Have you tried contacting the company? About maybe getting a different payment plan for longer terms that would result in a longer-life loan, but be more affordable right now? Especially since you have your two little ones--I would think that would impact your income/dependent ratio, so maybe you can get a better rate. I know my loan company has a plan that you can apply for that's income-based. You have to provide yearly statements of income to keep qualifying, but at least if you could drop the payments, it would help.

Thank you again Ming for the support and for sharing -
I am all for filing - yes I am embarassed, yes I am ashamed, but I am human and I have made mistakes - I can swallow my pride and DO this - it is my husband that won't. I cannot get him to see it - he won't even talk to me about it or anything else for that matter - so I don't know if I need to do it without him or leave him or what - I have no idea what my options even are. I know it will be hard, but I know we can do it - we are both very strong-willed (aka STUBBORN) people and can do what we set our minds to.
I didn't realize that there were generics of antidepressants - now that I know that I am considering it (however, I am nursing my youngest right now so it will have to wait - but maybe for my husband)
I don't know about my student loan company as I just consolidated not long ago - the one i had before I talked to and they said there was absolutely NOTHING they could do - I hung up with them very depressed and suicidal - they didn't care AT ALL - pretty much too bad, deal with it was their attitude. I felt like I might as well die so my family could collect the life insurance - stupid huh?
Good to know though about deferrment - that would REALLY help us maybe get caught up.
I am not really understanding the differences between Ch 7 and 13 and how it works - I don't understand the whole "plan" to pay back or whatever. If you are paying it all back, then why is your credit ruined? I see there are great resources on here, but there are so many links I wish it was all in one place for me, KWIM?

Marcie, I think you should still check into the antidepressants, even though you are nursing your daughter. I stayed on Zoloft the whole time I was pregnant, but I opted not to nurse. When I was in the hospital, one of the nurses asked me if I chose not to BF because of the Zoloft (that wasn't the case) and told me that Zoloft was a safe drug to take even when BF'ing. I'm scared for you when you mentioned that your conversation with your student loan company made you think that you wanted to die. If you ever feel that way, please don't hesitate to get yourself to the emergency room, and don't leave until they help you and you see the on-call psychiatrist. Don't worry about how you will pay for it--you, your children and your well-being are way more important, and things will work out, even if that debt is included in your bankruptcy. You WILL get through this, and you don't have to feel that way (not that you can necessarily control that you feel that way--I strongly believe that these feelings are caused by imbalances in the brain, so you can't really control it!).

Can you consider filing individually without your husband? Would that alleviate your debts, or do you have a lot of joint debt? See, I was in the situation where my husband attempted to file before I got pregnant. I was the one who refused to file then--we kept all seperate accounts, so his debt was his, mine was mine. And then I got pregnant with my daughter, and with all of my debt, I had no choice, so my husband dropped his individual case and we ended up filing joint. But I fought it for a LONG time--I wanted to do a 13, he wanted a 7. Finally, I relented and did a 7. I thought the same thing about the credit--that a 13 would look better on the credit report than a 7--BUT, as a lot of people on here will tell you, a 13 is terrible because you are stuck answering to a trustee for five years--and having to account for all of your income, and what you buy and things like that. I was never, ever late on a payment until I started prepping for the bankruptcy, so for a long time, I had a great credit score. But it tanked when I stopped making payments, but now, it's already gone up 30 points in a little over a month. You will be fine. Even if it trashes your credit, it's temporary and it's fixable. There's a thread on here about how to go about rebuilding your credit, and I'd be willing to bet that it takes less time than we even think. I think that the 13 ruins your credit because even though you are paying back, you are paying less than what you owe the creditors (it's a negotiated amount, that takes into account what they determine your payment should be, and then the creditors are paid from that, so what they get, they get), and I believe that they are not able to charge you any interest when you are in repayment.

About your student loan--can you contact them via email, online or through the mail? I'm a total avoider, so I would literally avoid the phone call, no matter what. But my company has a form you can download and mail in that helps them determine a new income-based plan for you, and while you'd have to wait for an answer, at least you could avoid the upsetting phone call.

Have you looked at any bankruptcy books? I bet you could find one that would better detail the differences between a 7 and 13, and probably help you figure out which way to go. My understanding is that most bankruptcy attorneys will offer you a free consultation, and that could probably answer a lot of questions for you, too.

Ming
My husband and I have a few things jointly - I would say it is split down the middle - he convinced me to take out the student loan and the bank of america loan to consolidate, but then he didn't use it to consolidate (whole other thread I know!).

I am an avoider too :) I don't want to deal with the calling so emailing might be an option - I have never once had a late payment so I would hope that they would try to help me out.
I haven't looked at any bankruptcy books, but I think I am going to google some and see what I can find - do you know of any good ones off hand?

I'm always a fan of the "Dummies" series, and I found "Bankruptcy for Dummies" at my local library. It was all updated for the law changes, and easy to read. I checked out every single book I could from the library (much to hubby's dismay, who was embarrassed that I would be doing this in public!), and a lot of them are for those who wish to file without the assistance of an attorney, so they have a lot of legal terms and sample forms. But, the Dummies one is simple and quick to read, so you could get your info fast (and not in totally legal terms that you'd have to invest more research into!).

This one on Amazon got five stars:
http://www.amazon.com/New-Bankruptcy-Will-Work-You/dp/1413306330/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1201055465&sr=8-1

I hate how many of these threads we see. It's not your fault, but you aren't supposed to know that. Our society breeds these perfect little consumers, it is supposed to work that way. Some don't quite become the perfect consumer on the one side, they pay off any debt before interest or fees accrue. The credit industry likes them the least (so what do you think our society pushes for?) Then there are people like us that try our best and give all the milk we can but there is never enough so we end up barren and bankrupt. The credit industry, believe it or not likes us best (that's why they create so many of us)! Oh sure we default and file bankruptcy, but on the whole we pay their bills. Relax! You were never meant to win in this game. They will write off your losses on their balance sheets and bank it either way.

What they do is immoral, what you do is your life and while they have no incentive to treat you virtuously (and believe me they don't), you have no incentive to ruin your own life. What is immoral about doing your best? Certainly life isn't about always winning!

These are the things that we do so that we can live, we don't live to do these things. The important things are family and friends, the rest comes out in the wash! We do our best, but you can't wear the same white shirt for a week without washing it, just isn't going to happen. Don't be depressed by the wash, it is a part of life.

Ask those of us that have been through it, it's rejuvenating!!! Best cure you'll ever find for depression is watching your bankruptcy close on Pacer and knowing that you still have everything that is really important to you, and it hasn't been compromised!!!

Keep your priorities in the right place, first your health, then that of your families, don't confuse your priorities just because someone else's are different. Keep them right and everything else will come out in the wash.

I hate how many of these threads we see. It's not your fault, but you aren't supposed to know that. Our society breeds these perfect little consumers, it is supposed to work that way. Some don't quite become the perfect consumer on the one side, they pay off any debt before interest or fees accrue. The credit industry likes them the least (so what do you think our society pushes for?) Then there are people like us that try our best and give all the milk we can but there is never enough so we end up barren and bankrupt. The credit industry, believe it or not likes us best (that's why they create so many of us)! Oh sure we default and file bankruptcy, but on the whole we pay their bills. Relax! You were never meant to win in this game. They will write off your losses on their balance sheets and bank it either way.

What they do is immoral, what you do is your life and while they have no incentive to treat you virtuously (and believe me they don't), you have no incentive to ruin your own life. What is immoral about doing your best? Certainly life isn't about always winning!

These are the things that we do so that we can live, we don't live to do these things. The important things are family and friends, the rest comes out in the wash! We do our best, but you can't wear the same white shirt for a week without washing it, just isn't going to happen. Don't be depressed by the wash, it is a part of life.

Ask those of us that have been through it, it's rejuvenating!!! Best cure you'll ever find for depression is watching your bankruptcy close on Pacer and knowing that you still have everything that is really important to you, and it hasn't been compromised!!!

Keep your priorities in the right place, first your health, then that of your families, don't confuse your priorities just because someone else's are different. Keep them right and everything else will come out in the wash.


That was beautifully written Run - someday I hope to work up the courage and show it to DH, but he would be so ticked off that I am sharing ANY of our personal information (of course, I think he would rather I share to strangers than to people we know)

I would recommend showing him the evidence that what I said is true from other sources. Here is something you could show him:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iron_law_of_wages

Perhaps something on wage slavery:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wage_slavery

Then perhaps something on population control:
population action (http://www.populationaction.org/Publications/Reports/Why_Population_Matters/Jobs_and_Wages.shtml)

Then perhaps illegal immigration:
Telegraph (http://my.telegraph.co.uk/field_marshall_watkins/october_2007/immigration_drives_down_wages_that_s_the_whole_id. htm)

And then quote Alan Greenspan regarding illegal immigration and it's intent:
"We ought to be opening up our borders to skilled labor from all parts of the world because if we were to do that we would increase the supply of skilled workers that our schools have been unable to create and as a consequence of that we would lower the average wage of skills and reduce the degree of income inequality in this country."
HUFPOST (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/david-sirota/greenspan-says-solution-t_b_66789.html)
So yeah, he's for income equality. By LOWERING wages to be equal!!!

Another:
At a press conference today unveiling the stimulus proposal, Rep. Michele Bachmann (R-MN) justified the conservative plan to give tax breaks to corporations — instead of working Americans — by arguing that people actually like working long hours:

I am so proud to be from the state of Minnesota. We’re the workingest state in the country, and the reason why we are, we have more people that are working longer hours, we have people that are working two jobs.

Bachmann’s version of the American Dream is apparently working two full-time jobs and struggling to get by.Think (http://thinkprogress.org/2008/01/16/bachmann-jobs/)

You may have already seen this wonderful exchange between a woman named Mary Mornin and George Bush on his "Let's Destroy Social Security Tour":

MS. MORNIN: Okay, I'm a divorced, single [57 year-old] mother with three grown, adult children. I have one child, Robbie, who is mentally challenged, and I have two daughters.

THE PRESIDENT: Fantastic. First of all, you've got the hardest job in
America, being a single mom...

MS. MORNIN: I work three jobs and I feel like I contribute.

THE PRESIDENT: You work three jobs?

MS. MORNIN: Three jobs, yes.

THE PRESIDENT: Uniquely American, isn't it? I mean, that is fantastic that
you're doing that. (Applause.) Get any sleep? (Laughter.)

MS. MORNIN: Not much. Not much.Tiny revolution (http://www.tinyrevolution.com/mt/archives/000392.html)

I think replacing feelings of guilt with well directed feelings of anger can be therapeutic when one is able to see the whole picture for what it is. I would love to see a running topic here that enables more people to see the true nature of the games being played in our society.

So to review, They want us to starve and die so that we don't over populate and use up too many resources. They want globalization to lower their costs of production by pulling all down to the same low standard rather than bringing us up together. They think it's great when we have to work three jobs just to survive! And then to add insult to injury, we are made to feel guilty and "surplus" for not keeping pace with our masters!

Watch the bailouts going on right now. Notice how big the bailouts are for the bankers whilst we get $600 to pay towards our massive debts! Notice they cut the plan to increase food stamps.

And who should feel guilty? Perhaps our government that has entered into phenomenal debt on our behalf!

David Walker is the U.S. comptroller, it is a non political office so he is free to tell the truth and not fear repercussions.

Listen to what he says about who is to blame for your debt:
On Glenn Beck (http://www.glennbeck.com/content/articles/article/196/4595/)

Or read it at the Denver Post:
http://www.denverpost.com/ci_7344870?source=rssdp