What I actually spend on food more than what's on Sched J

[bbgstartingover]

Hi Everyone,

First of all, thanks for just being there -- all of you and this forum have been a lifeline. Anytime I start to feel anxious, I just come to this board and read -- just knowing you guys are out there has been a huge comfort...whether I have questions or not. So blessings and good wishes to all of you. If I can help with anything, please don't hesitate...I will do what I can.

I finally finished updating/correcting the Ch. 7 schedules my atty prepared initially, so I'm getting real close to filing now. My question at this point is, what if I actually spend more on food than what I state on my Schedule J (filing single)? Will the Trustee take what I put on my Schedule J and then look over my bank statements for all my debit cd purchases for food/meals out/groceries and compare the amounts?

The last six months have been unusual in that there was Thanksgiving and Christmas where I had family visiting and I made the dinners, etc., and except for $80 in cash gifts, I didn't really do gifts for Christmas. Also, in the last three months, I've had some close friends visit from out of state, so although they took me out for meals at times, I also spent more on food for them.

I have most or all the receipts for these food and grocery purchases. I'm just nervous about putting the actual amount spent because it's over the allowable -- so I just put the allowable (or just under) on Schedule J, so as not to draw attention to myself. Does the Trustee actually look over your bank statements and compare what's listed on them for debit cd purchases to what you put on Schedule J?

Thanks again for everything. And Pa Kettle, that's so awesome that you were discharged...congratulations!!!

Me

[TX Bluebonnet]

I finally finished updating/correcting the Ch. 7 schedules my atty prepared initially, so I'm getting real close to filing now. My question at this point is, what if I actually spend more on food than what I state on my Schedule J (filing single)? Will the Trustee take what I put on my Schedule J and then look over my bank statements for all my debit cd purchases for food/meals out/groceries and compare the amounts?

The last six months have been unusual in that there was Thanksgiving and Christmas where I had family visiting and I made the dinners, etc., and except for $80 in cash gifts, I didn't really do gifts for Christmas. Also, in the last three months, I've had some close friends visit from out of state, so although they took me out for meals at times, I also spent more on food for them.

I have most or all the receipts for these food and grocery purchases. I'm just nervous about putting the actual amount spent because it's over the allowable -- so I just put the allowable (or just under) on Schedule J, so as not to draw attention to myself. Does the Trustee actually look over your bank statements and compare what's listed on them for debit cd purchases to what you put on Schedule J?

I'm wondering the same thing, except I have very few receipts, per se, just bank transactions. I was thinking of listing my food expenses the same way you've described, even though my monthly average for grocery/dining out over the past 12 months is at least 75% over the standard. Part of my problem - aside from eating out too much - is that my groceries are predominately purchased at walmart and those purchase transactions include household items, clothes, and even sometimes cash-back. Unfortunately, since I have only found a few walmart receipts to refer to I can only guess at how to break down each of those transactions into the right category. I can only hope that won't be a problem.

On the other hand, we've drastically cut back on eating out over the past few months, so that if the trustee only looked at our last few bank statements he'd see closer to what we now spend. So, if I put our actual way-above-standard past 12-month average for food on the schedule and he only looked at recent bank statements there would be a huge discrepancy there.

Are we darned if we do and darned if we don't?

[keepmine]

Generally speaking if you're in the ballpark of the allowed amount, the trustee will accept actual costs. But, unless you can document some sort of special dietary needs that causes your food bill to be way over the guidelines, you're out of luck.
Talk with your lawyer about what is/is not allowed in your district.

[bbgstartingover]

I understand that if i put the actual amounts on my Schedule J and they are over the allowable amounts, that will be an issue. What I want to know is, what if I put the allowable (or below allowable) amounts on my Schedule J, yet my actual expenditures from my bank statements for a given category -- in this case, food -- total more than what I've specified on the Schedule J? What happens then? How likely is it that the Trustee will add up all those actual expenditures from my bank statements/debit cd transactions and compare them to what I specified on your Schedule J? This is a situation where I'm putting down less, not more, on the Schedule than I'm actually spending.

Thanks for any help or clarification on this.

[keepmine]

If you use the amounts from the schedules, there is no issue. The trustee is not going to comb through receipts for no purpose.

[TX Bluebonnet]

So, are you saying that the trustee doesn't compare the expense schedule to the debtor's bank statements looking for discrepencies? My fear is that a trustee will see line after line item for fast food joints, restaurants, trips to walmart, etc on my bank statements and look at my listed expenses and think "something's not adding up here", and so they then start wondering what other things have I not "accurately" reported. I hope that clarifies at least what my concern is. If anybody that's already been through this and had similiar expenditure situations would chime in, that would be great! (Sorry, bbgstartingover, not trying to take over your thread, but you brought up something I was wondering about and still need clarification/reassurance on.)

[keepmine]

You're way overthinking this. 99% of Chapter 7 bk's are pretty routine.
The only way a trustee will inquire in depth is if they really suspect some abuse. The only thing they may look at on a bank statement is large deposits or withdrawals that may not jive with the schedules.
They don't do any indepth line by line inquiry unless they really suspect some abuse.

[epiphany]

So, are you saying that the trustee doesn't compare the expense schedule to the debtor's bank statements looking for discrepencies? My fear is that a trustee will see line after line item for fast food joints, restaurants, trips to walmart, etc on my bank statements and look at my listed expenses and think "something's not adding up here", and so they then start wondering what other things have I not "accurately" reported. I hope that clarifies at least what my concern is. If anybody that's already been through this and had similiar expenditure situations would chime in, that would be great! (Sorry, bbgstartingover, not trying to take over your thread, but you brought up something I was wondering about and still need clarification/reassurance on.)

Not where food in concerned unless you claiming something outrageous. If the trustees asked for grocery receipts we'd pretty much all be screwed.

The OP has a higher expense than what is acceptable in his/her district. If the OP lists the expenses to reflect what is acceptable, he/her should be safe.

Just me thinking here, but I would imagine that if you reported documented expenses that were in excess of what is acceptable for any one category, they would just lower it to the cap and call it a day.

Poke around the board some more...you are probably overthinking some things, as we all tend to do when we first start to contemplate BK.
ep

[TX Bluebonnet]

You're way overthinking this.

Poke around the board some more...you are probably overthinking some things, as we all tend to do when we first start to contemplate BK.

Thank you both. This does ease my mind considerably. And, yeah, I drive myself (and others) nuts sometimes when I "overthink" things so I definitely appreciate everyone's patience.

[Phillymanhere]

Hey, a lot of us "overthink" things. I assume you're discussing this question with your attorney right?

From what I've learned, attorneys sometimes ask you to "adjust" certain figures to raise your chances of qualifying for bk.
But you do not want to do any of this on your own. Only if your attorney, a good one you trust and who explains the logic, tells you to. And even then, be completely honest and direct with the attorney with any questions you have.
But don't dare veer from the truth or play with reality without discussing it with your attorney.

[TX Bluebonnet]

I'm consulting with an attorney (the 4th one!) tomorrow morning and will be asking him about this, along with some other questions. I definitely don't want to do this on my own, nor do I want to rely soley on an attorney. That's why I'm so glad I found this forum!