Kids Jobs

[woodj]

Two of my kids have part time jobs but do not contribute to household expenses. Do I need to include their income on the means test?

[magyar123]

Yup, they want "total household income".

[lrprn]

Two of my kids have part time jobs but do not contribute to household expenses. Do I need to include their income on the means test?

If the two kids are counted as members of your household for filing, then you do include whatever income they make. However, later in the Means Test, all the money they make that does NOT go specifically towards paying the general household expenses is subtracted back out.

In your case, sounds like all the money they make will be added in but then all of it will be subtracted back out, so no worries. Ask your lawyer about how this works - he/she can explain it in more detail.

[MomIcantFindmy]

I have a hard time understanding this because they could only track the childrens income through their social security number which isn't on our BK forms. Also their names are even blacked out including on the tax returns. I have never even heard any discussion about this before. Can someone tell me what block on form 22A we would even list their income and then again what block would allow for deductions? I am sorry I am so confused but I just do not get this. Maybe it is handled differently in differnet staates....

[lrprn]

Can someone tell me what block on form 22A we would even list their income and then again what block would allow for deductions?

The same form is used to file Ch 7 in every state - B22A. Here's a link to the current Ch 7 form - http://www.uscourts.gov/rules/BK_For...22A_0108v2.pdf

Income of your children before filing is included in the Part II calculations on Line 10. Later in the form in Part IV on Line 17, any income from your children NOT used for support of the household is subtracted back out.

This is just one more reason that you have to be willing do extensive homework and really know your stuff to file bankruptcy successfully without a lawyer these days.

[MomIcantFindmy]

I understand that the form (B22A) is the same in every state. My comment was that it may be "handled" differently throughout each state.

The USDOJ has attempted to clarify some of these issues as well as others as of January 1, 2008.

Form B22A Lines 8-10 are addressed as income from spousal support and child support with no mention of minor children's income. (See link below)

Form B22A Line 17 Marital Adjustment specifically states it is a "marital adjustment" only "often necessary when married spouses file bankruptcy without their spouse". Again no mention of subtracting out income included from minors on line 10. In fact, line 17 can only be used if you checked the box at line 2C (Married, not filing jointly)

I attempted a quick look for a USDOJ exact definition of income and minors for the calculation of monthly income "received" from all other sources with no luck. I will definitely keep looking at other case law.

http://www.usdoj.gov/ust/eo/public_affairs/articles/docs/2008/ba_200803.pdf

If one reads the entire update, one can see how the Bankruptcy Code is interpreted differently by attorneys, judges, trustees and courts. I am under the impression that the court would have to make rulings on whether money was actually "received" by the debtor or the debtors spouse from the minor children if the trustees actually choose to bring up the issue. Thus leaving it back to the courts for interpretation.

[Flamingo]

I just made the below posting under the "This Just Makes Me Sick" thread under Chapter 7...

"As it was explained to us at filing, if you claim your children as dependents on your income tax and they have income that contributes to the household (their income eliminates money you would provide to them, i.e. for car insurance, clothing, whatever), their income is considered as part of the household income. Now, this was back in 2002 but since the laws have stiffened up much more since that time, check the matter out with one's own attorney as to your situation and household income situation.

We were also advised that if an adult child lives with you that is not your dependent, whatever that child contributes for room and board is also household income."