Presumption of abuse filed by DOJ

[kimba251]

(Sorry for starting another thread already )

Well I looked online at PACER and it says a 707B was filed on Friday the 27th. (same day Trial Attorney from DOJ asked for more paystubs) WHat does this mean? We really don't have money to be in a 13 and repay anything back.

If we passed the means test how can we be under 707 b???

I can't understand why this is happening. Our min payments on ccs was 1,500 a month plus a car we gave up was 522 a month. We are already 588 over a month without these payments. Where are we suppossed to get this money from to even pay 10 % back if that is what this means?

We have NO savings and a house that needs some things done for upkeep. Am I reading into what a 707b means or are we really screwed?

[AngelinaCatHub]

KIMBA, fast answer without research. YOU HAVE FOUND the place for friends. It looks on the surface to me, that you are C7 people at this time. Sometimes that abuse thing is placed there just to CYA some trustee. I will be back to aid you unless someone else pipes in. I have a mutitude of probs with my situation, however, that does not change the situation that "Ve got nine marks" We have no money. There is no debtor's prison here (yet), and go with the flow and many can advise you. Thank your Maker for bringing you here. Help will arrive. Cali, Cali, where are you? This is one as well as "Help" and many who have advised me. 'Hub

[keepmine]

From something you posted in your other thread, I'll hazzard a guess. The 401K withdrawal {if done within 6 months of filing} is going to count as income. Plus, without $1500 in cc bills and another $500 from a car loan, the trustee sees $2K/month in disposable income.

[kimba251]

We withdrew 5,600 from retirement after we filed to save our house from foreclosure. We can only withdraw from retirement for "emergencies" and had to wait to get the intent to foreclose to get the money to bring us current.

As for the 522 and 1500 it's not disposable because it would be in addition to the 588 current deficit. We can make our bills without the second car and credit cards. We will have about 100 left over give or take depending on monthly bills whose balances change. We had 800 voluntary contribution to 401k which we stopped to make our current bills. I don't see how we have disposable income.

[keepmine]

As for the 522 and 1500 it's not disposable because it would be in addition to the 588 current deficit.

This sentence is confusing. Since, these debts would be discharged in bk, you can't count them as an ongoing monthly expense. Did you pull money from the 401K within 6 months of filing?

[kimba251]

THe money was taken a month after filing.

I meant the 522 and the 1500 would be included in the bankruptcy and not money we have left over every month. If we kept the car and credit card bills our monthly bills (which we can afford now) would be 522 and 1,500 in the red.

[diviaruba]

we passed the means test how can we be under 707 b???

We have NO savings and a house that needs some things done for upkeep. Am I reading into what a 707b means or are we really screwed?

One of the things you are likely to see in your 707(b) "presumption of abuse" motion is the U.S. Trustee's modified version of your B22A (means test form). You passed it with your numbers, but they plug their own in. Any disposable income above $187.50 per month, using their modified figures, will trigger the presumption.

Being over on median income is an invitation for the UST to "re-write" your means test, especially if you are surrendering a vehicle which is included in your filing (no vehicle, no payment allowed). Some districts are more debtor-friendly in this regard than others. Where they aren't, the UST goes at it with a vengeance.

[kimba251]

Our creditors meeting was June 17th so she waited until the last day to file the presumption. She also asked for more paystubs on that day too. I don't know what exactly she's looking for. She has all our bank statements which show our direct deposit payroll.

Could this still stay in 7 even though she's said presumption of abuse?

[HHM]

One thing to keep in mind, this motion is not the end of the world. Most of the time, so long as you supply what the US trustee is looking for, and everything is on the up-and-up, the motion gets withdrawn if you are truly a Chap 7.

[JRScott]

As HHM says this is standard in many districts for over the median income filers. Just hang in there provide all requested information and work with your lawyer. As someone else said he is probably challenging your expenses on the means test, so be ready to prove them.

If all goes well you'll still get the discharge.

[Help!]

One of the things you are likely to see in your 707(b) "presumption of abuse" motion is the U.S. Trustee's modified version of your B22A (means test form). You passed it with your numbers, but they plug their own in. Any disposable income above $187.50 per month, using their modified figures, will trigger the presumption.

Being over on median income is an invitation for the UST to "re-write" your means test, especially if you are surrendering a vehicle which is included in your filing (no vehicle, no payment allowed). Some districts are more debtor-friendly in this regard than others. Where they aren't, the UST goes at it with a vengeance.

This is dead-on accurate.