Meeting with Attorney Today!

[Frogge]

We are meeting with the attorney today with our list of questions & to decide when we should file. I was hesitant to do this on my birthday, but I did NOT want to reschedule it!! I have no idea what he'll say. I sent over an updated monthly cash flow spreadsheet and asset listing yesterday so hopefully he'll be able to review it before. I'm hoping he decides we can file after the 1st of the year -- after tax refund. My boss said he will cut my time/ salary if I need to (we are $12K over the median). So we'll see what happens. I'm going to ask about assets, if we should file before foreclosure, my son's income, and the recent charges on CC's.

I am anxious, but the great thing is -- I told DH about the total CC debt last night. For those of you that know, this was a big deal for me because I didn't know how I was going to tell him we owed $20K more than he thought. It was a great thing to do and he is not mad, just said he wished I'd told him sooner. He said he knew he was there too (charging stuff), even though I handled the finances I shouldn't have made it all my responsibility. I'm soooooo relieved to have that behind us. Now we can move forward together and get our lives on track!! --SHARING the financial responsibilities.

The appt is at 4:00, I'll let you guys know how it goes!! Thanks for all the great support and advice.

[AngelinaCat]

Hi Ms. Frogge: That is GREAT news and a BIG relief for you about DH. Now, both of you can work on this together. Good luck at your appointment today!

[cupcake]

We are meeting with the attorney today with our list of questions & to decide when we should file. I was hesitant to do this on my birthday, but I did NOT want to reschedule it!! I have no idea what he'll say. I sent over an updated monthly cash flow spreadsheet and asset listing yesterday so hopefully he'll be able to review it before. I'm hoping he decides we can file after the 1st of the year -- after tax refund. My boss said he will cut my time/ salary if I need to (we are $12K over the median). So we'll see what happens. I'm going to ask about assets, if we should file before foreclosure, my son's income, and the recent charges on CC's.

I am anxious, but the great thing is -- I told DH about the total CC debt last night. For those of you that know, this was a big deal for me because I didn't know how I was going to tell him we owed $20K more than he thought. It was a great thing to do and he is not mad, just said he wished I'd told him sooner. He said he knew he was there too (charging stuff), even though I handled the finances I shouldn't have made it all my responsibility. I'm soooooo relieved to have that behind us. Now we can move forward together and get our lives on track!! --SHARING the financial responsibilities.

The appt is at 4:00, I'll let you guys know how it goes!! Thanks for all the great support and advice.

I can't imagine how much of a burden it was on you carrying that around by yourself. I bet you feel like the weight of the world has been lifted off your shoulders. I am glad you were able to talk to him and that the two of you are going to work through this together! That's great news.

Good luck at your appointment - keep us posted!

[Cali]

Happy Birthday Frogge!!

I wish you luck today.

[b_girl]

Good luck and happy birthday! I hope you get great news.

[liz417]

Hi Frogge!
First of all, HAPPY BIRTHDAY!!!
I'm glad you finally told your hubby about the total debt, that was a lot of weight to carry on your shoulders. Now you guys can tackle this BK together and start fresh.
You sound organized and ready for your appointment...Good Luck today!!

Liz

[WoodSprite]

Frogge, what a wonderful gift you've given yourself! I'm so glad you and hubby are starting fresh - together. Congratulations. Sounds like you're well-prepared for the appointment, too, so tonight you'll have a lot to celebrate.

[AngelinaCatHub]

Frogge, what a wonderful gift you've given yourself! I'm so glad you and hubby are starting fresh - together. Congratulations. Sounds like you're well-prepared for the appointment, too, so tonight you'll have a lot to celebrate.

I could not say it better. You have a good hubby but you knew that didn't you.

Happy, Happy, Birthday, you are on your way to a new start.

[JRScott]

Happy Birthday

I hope this goes smoothly for you

[Frogge]

UPDATE -- We have to file by 9/29

Well, the meeting ened up being 2 hours long. The attorney was very impressed with the knowledge I have acquired through my research, and it went well but there are some big uncertainties now.

Because of the ridiculous residency clause in the new law, we have to file by 9/29 or we will be under TN laws instead of KS, which would be bad for us because of the exemptions. If not, we have to wait a whole YEAR to file to be under KS again which is not possible because of our pending foreclosure and a deficiency judgement possibly coming. The risk is too great to wait it out & not file by end of Sept.

Herein lies the problem, we are not prepared to file then. We had recent charges on CC's for gas, food and utilities, but the atty thinks these are no problem. We charged a vacation in June (camping - $6-700 total), which will be right AT the 90 days by end of Sept, --plus I'm still paying on the cards -- but I'm still worried. I roughly filled out the I & J schedules while in the meeting, and our expenses weren't enough, but I know I'm missing things. He sent these home with me to work on. My attorney is also a trustee so I asked my questions:

He said my 16 year old son's job income will NOT be counted in household income.

He said DH's overtime --that will show in the 6-month lookback-- will raise our income, yes, BUT - it will be "footnoted" that overtime has ceased, and this is not indicitave of his true income. I said "will that work??" He said YES.

He said due to our commutes and current gas prices, we can use higher numbers than the federal allowances for gas, but not much room on food. He said $1200 for a family of 5 was too high. However, he confirmed we can add $200/ month maintenance exp. for each of our 3 old high-mileage vehicles.

He thinks because of our looming deadline, we should give the 2nd mortgage holder to our old home a maximum of 2 weeks to decide if they want the house, and if they refuse to move on it then we file.

He said because we have 3 cars paid for and a tax refund coming to us for 07 -- we should offer to the trustee to buy back a vehicle (or 2) and offer a pro rated portion of our refund. He said "you don't want to screw the case down so tight that the Ch7 Trustee has no incentive to keep you in a 7."

The bottom line is (to the court), with the workout we've been attepting on the house, we did not know for sure that we were bankrupt until today. We are, so we're filing. He doubts the CC companies can object to the recent charges.

I'm nervous. I've got some work to do.

[epiphany]

Well, the meeting ened up being 2 hours long. The attorney was very impressed with the knowledge I have acquired through my research, and it went well but there are some big uncertainties now.

Because of the ridiculous residency clause in the new law, we have to file by 9/29 or we will be under TN laws instead of KS, which would be bad for us because of the exemptions. If not, we have to wait a whole YEAR to file to be under KS again which is not possible because of our pending foreclosure and a deficiency judgement possibly coming. The risk is too great to wait it out & not file by end of Sept.

Herein lies the problem, we are not prepared to file then. We had recent charges on CC's for gas, food and utilities, but the atty thinks these are no problem. We charged a vacation in June (camping - $6-700 total), which will be right AT the 90 days by end of Sept, --plus I'm still paying on the cards -- but I'm still worried. I roughly filled out the I & J schedules while in the meeting, and our expenses weren't enough, but I know I'm missing things. He sent these home with me to work on. My attorney is also a trustee so I asked my questions:

He said my 16 year old son's job income will NOT be counted in household income.

He said DH's overtime --that will show in the 6-month lookback-- will raise our income, yes, BUT - it will be "footnoted" that overtime has ceased, and this is not indicitave of his true income. I said "will that work??" He said YES.

He said due to our commutes and current gas prices, we can use higher numbers than the federal allowances for gas, but not much room on food. He said $1200 for a family of 5 was too high. However, he confirmed we can add $200/ month maintenance exp. for each of our 3 old high-mileage vehicles.

He thinks because of our looming deadline, we should give the 2nd mortgage holder to our old home a maximum of 2 weeks to decide if they want the house, and if they refuse to move on it then we file.

He said because we have 3 cars paid for and a tax refund coming to us for 07 -- we should offer to the trustee to buy back a vehicle (or 2) and offer a pro rated portion of our refund. He said "you don't want to screw the case down so tight that the Ch7 Trustee has no incentive to keep you in a 7."

The bottom line is (to the court), with the workout we've been attepting on the house, we did not know for sure that we were bankrupt until today. We are, so we're filing. He doubts the CC companies can object to the recent charges.

I'm nervous. I've got some work to do.

Wow, that is the first time I have heard a lawyer tell the client about the intricate workings and games that can and are played in the BK dance. That's pretty bold but I think I like it.

Your lawyer sounds very experienced. (I hope that's the case anyway).

My lawyer told me that even if someone objected (though I have no reason to think that they will), it would just mean working out a settlement with that creditor.

I think you will be fine (my gut feeling but I am no expert).

We are all nervous to one degree or another until we hear CASE CLOSED!

It's sad that we only figure out that we are bankrupt long after that is actually a reality. I wish you the best of luck and look forward to following your story.

ep

[Frogge]

Wow, that is the first time I have heard a lawyer tell the client about the intricate workings and games that can and are played in the BK dance. That's pretty bold but I think I like it.

Your lawyer sounds very experienced. (I hope that's the case anyway).

My lawyer told me that even if someone objected (though I have no reason to think that they will), it would just mean working out a settlement with that creditor.

I think you will be fine (my gut feeling but I am no expert).

We are all nervous to one degree or another until we hear CASE CLOSED!

It's sad that we only figure out that we are bankrupt long after that is actually a reality. I wish you the best of luck and look forward to following your story.

ep

Thanks, Ep --- yes as I expected, with him being a long-time trustee, he kept saying "If I were the trustee here, I would want..." etc.. so I really think it's beneficial that he can put himself on that side of the table and decide what will fly and what will not.

Yes, I also agree about the reality hitting you in the face that you are bankrupt. It's amazing to me that I didn't think about BK long before now.

[JRScott]

Well doesn't sound to bad really.

I know its sooner than you thought but sounds like its for the best. Sounds like a good well experienced lawyer.

Normal gas, food, and even utilities are not generally challenged even if in the 90 days. The vacation might be a problem, but even if they object to those charges you'd only owe for the ones that they successfully object to. (Depending on how the vacation was broke down they might not even object.)

Good Luck

[Cali]

I am surprised what he said about the OT, but I guess this all depends on your location. We don't get OT, but DH got a big one time amount during our 6 mths look back and we had to use that w/out a footnote to it.

I also think the vacation might be a problem, but then again with how many BKs that are going on you problem won't have a problem at all.

[Frogge]

Something we talked about in the meeting was the fact that the creditor (in this case, Citi) that we charged the vacation charges to, will ask for the whole balance of the card paid - $9000. The trick they try is to say intent to defraud.. even though I was not charging after DH lost his overtime. Tell me what you think about the situation:

We bought a lot on this card, used it for $800-$1000 in regular expenses per month when our house was under contract in Feb/March/April because we were saving our cash for the deficiency we would need at closing. When the 1st, then 2nd contract feel through, we started the DIL process, went on our planned vacation - using the card in anticipation of a settlement on the house.

I don't see how they can object to prior charges beyond 90 days. I've always paid more than minimum payments to them.