Check out my expenses before I file tomorrow

[djt]

I posted this on another site and wanted to see what you guys think as well.
My wife and I will file pro se tomorrow if all goes well. Here are the numbers that i came up with. Be as brutally honest as you like.

Net income $3300 for family of 4. Wife does part-time domestic work to pay for kids' daycare.

Total Expenses $4024

Mortgage Taxes Ins. $489

Gas/ Electricity $275 (old house and anticipated high natural gas prices)

telephone $55

internet $41

cable $67

Medical/Dental $50(guessing, that is if we could afford to go to the doctor every time someone got sick)

cell phone $55

home maintenance $275 (needs new roof and lots of other stuff that we haven't been able to afford because we were too busy trying to keep the credit card bills current)

Clothing $100 kids are (4 and 6)

Food $550

Laundry and dry cleaning $30

Car payments $722 (3 cars none of which has more equity than exemption allows and one is for sale) Can they force me to give up a payment? 2 cars and mortgate financed at same credit union whose relationship I would like to preserve. One of the cars is 03 which I want to keep, but it's financed with someone else.

Transportation and car maintenance $285(inspections, oil changes, gasoline, propert taxesfor 3 vehicles)

Recreation $40 (don't do much and not sure what to put)

Charitable contributions $45

Life Insurance $45 (mine is $25 but would like to get some for wife)

Car insurance $155 (Will go down to $115 when/if the car sells)

Health insurance $100(wife has no health insurance but I intend to get her some mine comes out of my check to the tune of $200 per month)


Student loans $145 (have forbearance until 06)

Gifts $75(Christmas and birthdays and somewhat conservative)

Daycare $425 (so wife can work a little and maybe take a class to get a decent job. Is an Hispanic immigrant who is learning English)

If I were to get rid of the $345 car payment $3679, but I would like to keep that particular one and sell one of the others.

My income appears quite low. I could show a little more income for my wife, but her work can be sporadic and it's only $500 or so per month.

How negative can one be as far as income minus expenses? I will be filing pro se on Tues, I hope. Let me hear what you guys think. I really appreciate this These forums are awesome. Thanks again.

[TatteredInTexas]

Hi djt,

Some of those expenses look "anticipated". Do you actually spend $275 a month on house repairs now? Are you paying $45.00 for life insurance now?, are you paying $425 for Daycare now?

Somebody correct me if I am wrong here, but I think the expenses are supposed to be what you are CURRENTLY spending and not a guess of what you will be spending.

Best,
Ronnie
TatteredInTexas

[accentone]

djt, have you looked at the federal income table allowances for your state? They helped me a lot in determining my budget.

All in all, the numbers look okay to me. Housing maintenance a little high, but as long as you have proof the the expenses, you're okay. Also, remember expense have to be real, and not projected. In other words, not what they would be or might be later on. As HHM said in an earlier thread, they are a kind of snapshot of your financial condition right now. If your wife "averages" $500 a month, I think you have to include it. But even with that, you're still upside down, so to speak. To answer your last question, if you show more than $100 over of income vs. expenses, they could try and put you in a chap. 13. But I don't see that as the case here.

Good luck. Let us know how it goes.

PS--Good for your wife learning English!! Best of luck to her.

[HHM]

You mention Mortgage Taxes, but you don't list a mortgage.

Also, if your wife works part time, you need to average her last 6 months worth of income and list it as income.

Second, as to your question, unless you have a reason to hav 3 cars (i.e. one of you kids is old enough to drive), you should plan on having the trustee object to 1 of the car payment expenses.

Actually if you show that much of a deficiet, nearly $700, that will also raise red flags in your case because then it becomes a question of how you are making ends meet and the presumption that you are living beyond your means and therefore committing fraud on your creditors.

[pink_amulet]

We just filed last week, and our lawyer did some combining of expenses. We are a family of four here in IL (kids 5yrs&10yrs)

Food $ 450 for food (this included lunches for kids and hubby)
House maintenance was $50- MAX even though we had higher too, and could prove it
Hygiene items & medical co pays put together
Entertainment is allowed $20 per person- they added gifts/holidays to this as well
Clothing you are allowed $25 per person
Haircuts you are allowed $20 per person

Make sure you add in car repairs

We were over our budget by $900 and the lawyer saw NO problem, we’ll see if that holds true with the trustee.

[djt]

It should read mortgage, taxes, and insurance $489. I understand about the car issue. What happened was that during the summer I pusrchased a newer car almost exactly 3 months ago to the date (July 2) as I didn't have to make a car payment on the other 2 until Aug. 31. I was sure that one car would sell before then, but it hasn't. I would surrender it to my credit union, but they also hold my mortgage and other car. I was trying to hold off until I sold it, but can't. I'll surrender the 03 if I have to, but is there another way? Someone told me to surrender and continue making payments. Is that even wise? It is with Capial One. As far as my maintenance....my house is in terrible need of a new roof. I have a metal one that leaks and has been leaking for over a year. I was too busy trying to keep up with my credit card payments to care, I suppose. I already included my wife's income in my net monthly income, as well. I can lower my expenses in some areas, but the heat and electricty is pretty verifiable. I averaged $175 this summer (old farmhouse circa 1915), and last year there were some months when the natural gas bill was well over $300. Now they are talking about the cost doubling. I'll just die if that happens.