Thought we were on our way to filing, but lawyer has brought up some different scenarios that has me thinking. We were originally going to file jointly since house and cars are joint debt (common law married), but together we have a high income, and are way over the 336k max unsecured debt limit to file ch 13, making our only option to file 7 (ch 11 has been suggested, but it is expensive and we have no business debt and finding a lawyer to do an individual/personal ch 11 can be difficult).
For the ch 7 lawyer would make the argument of including student loan payments as part of our required payments in order to argue the presumption of abuse thing. Without the student loan payments it looks like we have a huge disposable income to pay back creditors (but obviously doesn't work because we can't file ch 13 due to the 336k unsecured limit anyways).
We are techncially not married (in a common law state though) and legally can file jointly. BUT, lawyer is stating that most likely if we file ch 7 jointly it is going to go all the way up to the national trustee level due to our high income and proving that we cannot file ch 13 and that ch 11 is not a good option for us (more work for him).
He then suggested we may want to look at filing separately (one of us would pass means test for ch 7 and the other would file ch13). The one filing ch 7 can take out all payments like student loans out of their income being contributed to the household by the other, hence bringing down the income in order to pass means test for the one doing the ch 7.
I am wondering though if we both file separately, doesn't that look suspicious to the trustee or do they look at each case on an individual basis? I would think at the 341 meeting that they would ask questions like why we did not file together and it would raise red flags. And what if one of us files first and then waits a few months for the other to file, does that look bad to the trustee for the one filing second? How common is it that couples file separately? I would assume the trustees want you to file together.
On the means test since our house and car are joint debt, do you list the entire payment amounts for each of us on our individual paperwork or do you split it up?
Also, we have a joint checking account. How would that impact us if we file separately? I mean all of our income goes pretty much to our bills right now and we really don't have anything left over, but I worry that the trustee would see the other's paychecks as money they can take and then how would we pay our mortgage and stuff that month!??
So confused as to what to do right now. I am getting the impression that lawyer wants us to file ch 7 jointly, but is just warning us what could happen. Can't remember if he said if the trustee would push us to file separately...not sure if they ever do that. Then I have been thinking what if one of us files first and sees how the process goes, and then the other one files at a later date (but perhaps that looks bad).
I am more confused than ever! ha ha
For the ch 7 lawyer would make the argument of including student loan payments as part of our required payments in order to argue the presumption of abuse thing. Without the student loan payments it looks like we have a huge disposable income to pay back creditors (but obviously doesn't work because we can't file ch 13 due to the 336k unsecured limit anyways).
We are techncially not married (in a common law state though) and legally can file jointly. BUT, lawyer is stating that most likely if we file ch 7 jointly it is going to go all the way up to the national trustee level due to our high income and proving that we cannot file ch 13 and that ch 11 is not a good option for us (more work for him).
He then suggested we may want to look at filing separately (one of us would pass means test for ch 7 and the other would file ch13). The one filing ch 7 can take out all payments like student loans out of their income being contributed to the household by the other, hence bringing down the income in order to pass means test for the one doing the ch 7.
I am wondering though if we both file separately, doesn't that look suspicious to the trustee or do they look at each case on an individual basis? I would think at the 341 meeting that they would ask questions like why we did not file together and it would raise red flags. And what if one of us files first and then waits a few months for the other to file, does that look bad to the trustee for the one filing second? How common is it that couples file separately? I would assume the trustees want you to file together.
On the means test since our house and car are joint debt, do you list the entire payment amounts for each of us on our individual paperwork or do you split it up?
Also, we have a joint checking account. How would that impact us if we file separately? I mean all of our income goes pretty much to our bills right now and we really don't have anything left over, but I worry that the trustee would see the other's paychecks as money they can take and then how would we pay our mortgage and stuff that month!??
So confused as to what to do right now. I am getting the impression that lawyer wants us to file ch 7 jointly, but is just warning us what could happen. Can't remember if he said if the trustee would push us to file separately...not sure if they ever do that. Then I have been thinking what if one of us files first and sees how the process goes, and then the other one files at a later date (but perhaps that looks bad).
I am more confused than ever! ha ha