Searching for 707b objections

So I have Pacer and Westlaw and Lexis, but I prefer Westlaw - my question is, since I am used to looking up WAY different types of cases for my job in Westlaw, that I cannot even figure out HOW on Westlaw to search the correct court to find 707b objections.....

Anyone know how to guide me to find this?

Did the Trustee file the 707(b) statement of presumption and/or the actual Motion to Dismiss?

I don't have Westlaw or Lexis (you lucky duck). I would have to go to the Law Library to use them, and they are always tied up (as there is only one public access terminal).

For Westlaw, probably try the ABI or the National Bankruptcy Review Commission database.

Anyhow, have you tried searching by "11 USC 707(b)" (in quotes)?

He has only filed his statement of presumed abuse, no motion....problem is: I am having surgery around the time when he would have to file it by and will be out of comission (I think) for a bit....so I wanted to get my ducks in a row to make it easier on me. I dont know how much time I will have from when he files it to when I need to file my objection.

Wouldn't it just be the best thing ever if he forgot/didn't file a motion!! :)

I didn't find anything in my searches for you either. I did find an Ohio Case that didn't turn out so well. However, in that case, the Debtor was trying to put in 401(k) contributions as well... but it still seemed to be a case where the Judge didn't want to give the Student loan(s) any special treatment.

http://www.ohnb.uscourts.gov/judges/Judge_Speer/op_20080221_In%20re%20Rex%20and%20Nicki%20Reimer_r s_07-32787.pdf

Teacher Momma:

I found the following on the Bankruptcy Law Network Site:

"A monthly student loan payment is a valid additional circumstance allowing a debtor with above-median income to file for Chapter 7 bankruptcy, according to the United States Bankruptcy Court for the Southern District of Indiana, in a decision filed April 16, 2007. The Trustee’s calculations showed that Brenda Delbecq, a schoolteacher, had $306 per month of disposable income if $327 payments on a 21,000 student loan were excluded, creating a presumption of abuse.

The court disagreed and concluded that Delbecq had no reasonable alternative to making the loan payments. According to the court, ”the only parties who would benefit from conversion [to Chapter 13] are the Debtor’s Attorney and the Chapter 13 Trustee.” The court noted that in their jurisdiction the Court has historically allowed separate classification of student loan debt in Chapter 13 plans, so that the other unsecured creditors would receive nothing in any case. Furthermore, the costs of administering the plan would siphon money away from payments, allowing interest to accrue and increasing the time needed to pay off the student loan.

The Delbecq decision to proceed with a Chapter 7 liquidation provides a clean solution to the alternative - administering a student loan through a Chapter 13 plan, with issues of unfair discrimination versus a repayment plan that adds to total student loan indebtedness. If “special” is interpreted to mean “unusual”, trustees and unsecured creditors have grounds for a challenge. The number of people with incomes only slightly above median who have significant student loan debt is huge, and the overlap with those in trouble with credit cards, medical debt, and unsecured second mortgages substantial."

It was posted by Kent Anderson, Oregon BK Attorney
Source: Bankruptcy Law Network


I have access to Westlaw and Lexis Nexis also. Usually do civil litigation, but will see if I can dig anything up for you.

2manybills, thank you.

Teacher... I don't know if I mentioned before that it may come down to being able to classify student debt differently, so that it could be treated as a separate class, above general unsecured debt. In that case, I say that the Ohio case is on point.

The question is, does California allow student debt to be in a different class for purposes of distribution?

Your welcome. I am happy to print the opposition to motion that was used in this case. It will give all of the case cites and also use proper formatting. One thing I have learned in my many years of working in the legal system, is that the USDC's are very picky about how documents are filed and how they are set up. They require tables of authorities, tables of contents, et. seq.

Your welcome. I am happy to print the opposition to motion that was used in this case. It will give all of the case cites and also use proper formatting. One thing I have learned in my many years of working in the legal system, is that the USDC's are very picky about how documents are filed and how they are set up. They require tables of authorities, tables of contents, et. seq.I happen to be in a District that isn't so picky... but I notice that another District in Florida has gone so far as to basically publish a new style guide, telling (or reminding) anyone submitting papers how to use citations!!! :) So, yes, some of them are picky from what I've seen. I'm lucky to not be in such a District.

If you do, send them to TeacherMomma... she's fighting a 707(b) dismissal -- although only the statement of presumption is filed.

Federal Court Judges are appointed while State Court Judges are elected. So the Federal Judges pretty much get to say how they want it for their own districts.

I have PM'd Teacher and am happy to print the stuff for her if necessary. I have free access to Pacer, Westlaw and LexisNexis.:clapping:

Federal Court Judges are appointed while State Court Judges are elected. So the Federal Judges pretty much get to say how they want it for their own districts.

I have PM'd Teacher and am happy to print the stuff for her if necessary. I have free access to Pacer, Westlaw and LexisNexis.:clapping:Well, she has Westlaw and LexisNexis... she just needs the Cite and database pointer. :)

I PM'd it earlier to her.

Thank you both! I have replied to the PM, thanks for any help you can give! I need it! The format for the objection would help a great deal. I just need to know how to GET to where this info is in Westlaw....

In the mail today I received a letter asking for the following regarding my student loans:
If any of the above are duplicated? (nope, sadly they are all legit)
What percentage of the funds on each of the loans were used for tuition and what percent is used for living expenses, etc? (I dont even know how to answer this.....it is 10 years + of loans, and it is really about 50/50 give or take on the percentage, cause I had to be part time or free when doing "interning" etc.
Edited to add they also want to know how I intend to repay the debt??? How the heck do I answer that? Ummm, I can't repay it all - I will die before then! I don't know how to answer them.

They want this by the 16th. Of course they need it to format their dismissal....so it is coming, but am I bound to give them this info? Do I have to? Of course my husband was like "they want that info to draft their motion - that is like the criminal telling the cops how they comitted the crime - don't respond". Ummmm, thanks hubby - but I am not a criminal LOLOLOL.

Well, they want to know if they have a case. :) Either way, it's not a criminal case. Let hubby know that unfortunately, failure to adhere to the instructions or requests from the U.S. Trustee will get your case dismissed quicker. :)

How do you think I should answer those questions. I know to answer them honestly, but at this point some are 10+ years old and I could not even remember the percentage of what was used for tuition and what was living expenses. So whatever my response is will be a guesstimate, and if I am going to guesstimate I'd rather have the "proper" answer for them, know what I mean? What is the reson behind the percentage question?
And how do I intend to repay the debt? Working till I die? I don't know how to answer that either!

So whatever my response is will be a guesstimate, and if I am going to guesstimate I'd rather have the "proper" answer for them, know what I mean? What is the reson behind the percentage question?

And how do I intend to repay the debt? Working till I die? I don't know how to answer that either!I don't know. You write that the responses are based on the best available information and recollection.

How do you intend to repay? Just as anyone does on a $400K home... for 30 years. :)

Well, they want to know if they have a case. :) Either way, it's not a criminal case. Let hubby know that unfortunately, failure to adhere to the instructions or requests from the U.S. Trustee will get your case dismissed quicker. :)

Do you think that depending on the info they get from me on this request that they might not pursue it? They asked for stuff they already have.

Here is what I wrote, do you think it is too much info?
In response to your request for information regarding my six student loans listed on Schedule F of my bankruptcy filing:

• No, sadly none of the loans are duplicated.
• I intend to repay, although struggle doing so, these debts as set forth in the terms of the loan agreements, over the next 30-50 years, with income received from my and my husband’s employment.
• With the exception of the loan # ending in 5160, the loans were taken out by me, XXXXX. Loan #XXX was taken out by my husband XXXX for both our educational needs and pertinent living expenses.
• Tuition was approximately $20-30,000 per year over the last 12 years, and anything over that point was used to cover books, required items for my schooling, and other pertinent living expenses.
• We have been making partial, full and interest only payments over the course of the 12 years – on and off depending on what deferments or forbearance we were able to obtain.
• As per the information I have previously provided to your office regarding these loans, all of the loans are in a “suspended status” due to the bankruptcy filing, and once that process is complete they will all resume with regular payments due since I am no longer eligible for any in school deferments or forbearance of any kind. One exception is the US Department of Education loans. They will allow an in school deferment, but at this point I would only be attending school to keep those loans in that deferment status, all the while paying out tuition to do so. I feel that is counterproductive, and will put the money towards paying off the loans. I have gone around and around with them all for quite a while and none of the companies are allowing me online or phone access to my records and all that I have is what was submitted to you on June 12, 2009. I indicated the payments to the best of my ability, being at a loss with the loan company’s unwillingness to discuss this with me. I can only ask that you refer to those documents which hold the information that you are requesting.

Deja vu? Thought I already answered this. :)

I think it's an adequate response. It's factual, doesn't delve (too much) into any subjectivity, and answers their questions.

They may want to explore the "other pertinent living expenses"... but I'm not familiar with this specifically and what they are looking for. By responding, you're hoping that it alleviates their desires to not file a 707(b) dismissal. At the same time, yes, they will use your responses to decide on it and will use them in the dismissal, should they choose to ask for the dismissal.

Deja vu? Thought I already answered this. :)



Nope, you didn't :) But thanks for the response!!