CitiBank is Calling-Again and Again and Again!

I stopped paying all of my credit cards about two and a half weeks ago. Am current on my mortgage, utilities,taxes, and car/home insurance. I have no equity in my home, drive a 12 year old car and am more than likely judgment proof. Will eventually go Chapter 7 but since I used a couple of cards in June, I'm waiting about six months (of non-use) to file.

Back story is I've never, in 36 years ever been late or gone bankrupt. Paid off two cars, a student loan, and three mortgages along the way. Excellent credit report with every creditor saying "Pays As Agreed". Just in over my head with too much credit card debt because of job loss a couple years ago.

Anyway, so far three creditors have called me: HSBC, Kroger Financial, and Sears CitiBank. I told all three that I was unemployed and living on food stamps, unemployment and temp work and would pay them what I could what I could.

HSBC and Kroger and have only called once and have been easy enough to deal with but Sears Citibank wasn't so understanding and seems to have me on speed dial calling every three days (starting six days after my first missed payment was past due.) They are sneaky and deceptive: i.e., Caller pretends to be someone you know. "Hi, Sandy!" and when you ask, in reply, who's calling they say, "This is Pat or Heather or Polly" as if they are someone you know.) They are also so manipulative and argumentative (Especially if you give them an answer they don't want to hear like, "I'll pay you when I can what I can and that's all that I can say right now.")

So far, I'm taking every call and not dodging them. I'm also keeping a call log for future reference as Citibank calls are verging on harassment; i.e., repeated calls are meant to be annoying so I'll pay them just to shut them up. I live in California and know that the FDCPA extends to original creditors but I don't want to send them a C&D letter this soon in the game as it might cause them to send me to a collection agency or sue me (too much for small claims court.) Pretty much judgment proof as I stated above but I don't want to pull the dog's tail if I don't have to.

One thing that I have learned from this board is that you file when you want to and don't let anyone jerk you around. :beee: Be prepared, do your homework, and get your ducks in a row, get a good attorney then file.

Thanks to the sage advice of the following board-members people BigBoy2U, TreeHugger, Catleg, and Optomistic1, I feel I'm fairly well protected. I'm dealing on a cash basis, not using cards at all, paying creditors with money orders, staying current with my mortgage (in case I want to re-affirm or ride-through), using a PO Box, and made sure I got copies of all my statements for the past two years before I stopped paying. I owe over 100K. You guys rock!

Anyone, ever deal with Sears Citibank before and what is your advice. Send them a C&D letter, ignore their calls, or take their calls and just keep telling them my sad story? They sure did seem to over-react and I don't want to do the same.

Sandy

Hi Sandy, I'm kind of in the same boat as you are right now. I haven't paid on my personal lines of credit for 3 months now but have kept current on cc payments until last week. It felt really weird not paying. Citibank is also affiliated with Home Depot, Universal Card, Exxon Mobil just to name a few. I know because I have all of these accounts. I suppose my turn is coming soon. I do have my mortgage through them and I'm trying to do a loan modification so this is really going to be interesting as to how this will all play out. Good luck to you. I see you have done your homework. I am getting so much information from everyone here. Honestly, if it were not for the good people here I would still be deeply depressed and feeling so lonely. NOT anymore! Thanks to all who have done more for my mental well being they have no idea!

Sears Shiti hasn't called me in several months. I do attempt to make feeble payments, as I never know when I might need a lawnmower. LOL

Welcome to the club. I have 6 citi cards just passing 150 days past due. i have not spoken to a single creditor. The 1st 3 months they will flood you with calls. After 90 days expect citi to move your account to a CA, then follow the procedure on this forum to send them a DV. Dont feel guilty, bad things happen to good people, Hell GM is in bankruptcy. relax and wait your 6 months like the rest of us. Good luck to you.

Welcome to the club. I have 6 citi cards just passing 150 days past due. i have not spoken to a single creditor. The 1st 3 months they will flood you with calls. After 90 days expect citi to move your account to a CA, then follow the procedure on this forum to send them a DV. Dont feel guilty, bad things happen to good people, Hell GM is in bankruptcy. relax and wait your 6 months like the rest of us. Good luck to you.
Should I wait 6 months to file seriously? What is a DV?

I am being sued 3 times by Citi, although not by Sears, as far as I know.

I feel like Bugsy in those old bugs bunny cartoons....come and get me coppers!

Current lawsuit count: 6 (not counting 1 NAF arbitration that I hope will go away, not that I particularly care).

Costs of filing fees paid by creditors so far: $900 (economic stimulus for court system).

I am being sued 3 times by Citi, although not by Sears, as far as I know.

I feel like Bugsy in those old bugs bunny cartoons....come and get me coppers!

Current lawsuit count: 6 (not counting 1 NAF arbitration that I hope will go away, not that I particularly care).

Costs of filing fees paid by creditors so far: $900 (economic stimulus for court system).

Will you go to court or just ignore the summons?

I have Citi cc. I was upfront with them about my situation in the beginning. But they called again about 3 days later. I went through moments when I took the calls and then didn't, but they just call back a few days later.

Should I wait 6 months to file seriously? What is a DV?


No. You file when it suits you according to whatever plan you are following. DV is a Debt Verification letter you send to the collection agency to stall them. search this forum, you will find lots of information on what to do.

Will you go to court or just ignore the summons?

I'm going to file BK very shortly, before they get a judgment. If it drags out a bit then I'll file an answer, but I should be good till the end of August. Sadly here in NJ there is "no escape" from them, but fortunately the bankruptcy system is more humane here than other places I've heard about.

I have a Sears Citibank card still current as of right now, but haven't made the payment yet for Aug. I think I'm going to because we're probably at least 6 months from filing. But, no more payments after that.

I don't have a job right now and the card is in my name only so I'm not too concerned about this card.
After reading this, I guess I will tell them my story once and then ignore the calls.

I have Citi cc. I was upfront with them about my situation in the beginning. But they called again about 3 days later. I went through moments when I took the calls and then didn't, but they just call back a few days later.

So long has this been going on?


Sandy:tongue:

I hated the calls daily from some of the OC's. I couldn't wait for accounts to be shipped out to CA so I could DV them and get the phone calls to stop.

But if you can take it, if you talk to them on average once of week it keeps them going for a long time. The down side is you have to put up with the barrage of phone calls.

I never understood for how all these places claim to make notes, record the calls etc. how it is that when I spent 15 minutes explaining my situation to you two days ago why is it that when you call me today you think I need to explain it all over again or the fact that something has changed.

I once had BoA call me with the auto dialer and while I was listening to the call I got another call from BoA so I switched over to that call and was talking to a live person and in the middle of that call I get ANOTHER call from BoA. So I tell the person I am talking to I have to go since BoA is calling me and I hung up on her since I put the other line on hold and when I got back to the second lady (it really was only like 20-30 seconds later) she had hung up. Oh well.... but it does seem like harassment when you get slammed by all these calls day in and day out.

Thanks BigBoy2U:angel:

Need some of your sage advice. Since I live in California can I DV them? If yes, then do you think I should do that to shut them up for awhile or just take their calls and keep stalling them that way holding the DV as my lazy ace.

Funny story about BofA. :tongue: I'm expecting them to call any day now as I have four cards with them with a combined debt of 45K. I also, until yesterday, had a checking account with them. I say until yesterday because I took your advice and drained and closed my checking account (opened a new one with a bank that holds none of my debt) but only after printing all historical statements for all cards. I made a $10 token payment to all cards. Not a peep so far. I did call them in June, before I stopped paying and talked to their hardship dept and some young twenty-something guy had a small melt-down :aggress: when I told him my situation but eventually he calmed down and wished me luck. :dry:

At first, I had a lot of anxiety about taking the calls but after reading everyone's posts on this forum I eventually came to realize that even good people do dumb things. In effect, the calls are the least of my worries. Learning how to live without credit will be the real test.

My parents never had credit and I used to be the same way but life gets in the way and you do what you think you should do to keep a roof over your head and food on the table. As another poster pointed out, the government routinely bails out big business so why feel guilt or shame; just detach and remain as unemotional as possible.

I largely blame myself for the mess that I'm in but I also feel that the government should have stepped in a lot sooner with a lot more muscle to stop the "easy credit rip-off" (remember Good Times) credit card companies and sub-prime mortgage bandits from dangling the carrots we so greedily ate.

Back in the day, you couldn't get a credit card until you had been working for x number of years and forget about buying a house without a job and x% down that came from a bank account you maintained for x number of months before you bought the house. If your front-end and back-end rations were greater than x% then-no loan either. Next thing I know, credit card companies are papering me with high limit pre-approved cards with zero per cent interest while sending me unsolicited zero percent balance transfer checks after I sign on like there was no tomorrow. Unfortunately, there is a tomorrow.

But, when tomorrow came, I simply re-fied, and used some of my rapidly growing equity to pay off my unsecured debt. Houses were appreciating as much as 30 per cent a year in SoCal so who cared. But it was a false equity, it turned out, fueled primarily by sub-prime lenders who colluded with investors and appraisers to give loans to people who really couldn't afford them so they could line their pockets with huge commissions and bonuses. They manipulated the supply and demand curve and the government didn't do a thing. Now the government is trying to un-do something that was twenty plus years in the making with everything from economic stimulus programs to HOPE. The HOPE program is a joke. Only a small percentage of people qualify for re-fi under that program. And, I could go on and on but the fact is the only way out for the average worker is to go bankrupt.

End of sermon.:clapping:

I think I just found a novel way to deal with OC calls. While typing this post, I got a call from Kroger so I bent some supervisors ear for twenty minutes about the sad state our economy, why it's in the shape it is (see above) and how it has not only effected me but killed Michael Jackson (don't ask about that example it's pretty convoluted.) Kept him on the line so long I think I heard him start snoring. In the end, we agreed to close my account and let the chips fall where they may but not after I bored him senseless. He told me they would still call me every three days but I'll have another lecture all ready by that time!:yahoo:

SandyS:tongue:

Re: the target on my back

I think it comes down to two or three factors. In addition to the state being creditor friendly, I think they may be wanting to crack down hard on people who defaulted around the time of the TARP bailouts. It's also a variation on the prisoner's dilemma. If one creditor sues me, they might just get some money. But if they all do, they lose. I wonder if they check for existing suits and judgments before they file. You would think lawsuit #6 wouldn't be looking that hot to file, right? Unless maybe this creates the impression of a wounded fish who for some reason can't file a BK, so they are like sharks who smell blood.

I am being sued 3 times by Citi, although not by Sears, as far as I know.

I feel like Bugsy in those old bugs bunny cartoons....come and get me coppers!

Current lawsuit count: 6 (not counting 1 NAF arbitration that I hope will go away, not that I particularly care).

Costs of filing fees paid by creditors so far: $900 (economic stimulus for court system).

You had me rolling on the floor with this one! :)

You can DV anyone anytime the first time. You have 30 days to DV them after they send out the first letter. Are you confusing this with a C&D? Kind of sounds like it?

Thought you could send out a DV after they first contact you and ask you for a payment. So, I gather that you don't send out a DV until after they send you something in writing. Is that correct?

SandyS

They're supposed to send you a letter within 5 days of initial contact.
The ethical ones send the letter first, the sleazy ones want to work you over first so they send the letter 5 days or more after initial contact.
Then you have 30 days to respond with a DV which is supposed to stop collection activity until they "validate".
If you miss the 30 day window all you have left is C&D, as well as if they do validate, usually something as simple as a statement. Wouldn't hold up in court but they consider it validation for their purposes.

You had me rolling on the floor with this one! :)

I'm hoping that if I accomplish nothing else, I cost the JDB's a few dollars.

BB, by the way I think the IRS rule is they're supposed to 1099 you after 36 months. Potentially I think this means they may wish to sell the debt before that time to escape the requirement. I know the debt buying community isn't too happy about it either. No upside for them, only downside (IRS enforcement action if they fail to comply).

They're supposed to send you a letter within 5 days of initial contact.
The ethical ones send the letter first, the sleazy ones want to work you over first so they send the letter 5 days or more after initial contact.
Then you have 30 days to respond with a DV which is supposed to stop collection activity until they "validate".
If you miss the 30 day window all you have left is C&D, as well as if they do validate, usually something as simple as a statement. Wouldn't hold up in court but they consider it validation for their purposes.


I live in California and am dealing with original creditors. Since California FDCPA extends federal FDCPA to original creditors must they send me a letter after initial contact?

SandyS

I thought I read something on the insideARM boards *****ing about the 36 months, but I can't locate a reference. Oh, wait a sec, here's an article explaining it:
http://www.acainternational.org/attorneys-regulations-limit-scope-of-36_month-rule-relating-to-1099_c-reporting-13326.aspx
Regulations Limit Scope of 36-Month Rule Relating to 1099-C Reporting
MAPbulletin - December 2008
December 5, 2008
Debt purchasers are no longer required to file a Form 1099-C based on non-payment of a debt during a 36-month period.

Most debt purchasers will no longer be required to file a Form 1099-C based on the sole fact payment was not made on the debt within a 36-month period. Debt purchasers are still required to file a Form 1099-C if another triggering event occurs.

The Department of Treasury issued temporary and final regulations relating to 1099-C reporting requirements. These new regulations, effective Nov. 10, 2008, will affect debt purchasers currently required to file 1099-C forms.

Relevant federal regulations require certain entities to file information statements, referred to as a 1099-C Forms, with the Internal Revenue Service (IRS) as well as with a consumer if that entity discharges an obligation to pay a debt over an amount of $600. Amendments to the federal regulations in 2004 clarified organizations engaged in the significant trade or business of lending money must comply with the 1099-C reporting requirements, including debt purchasers.

Federal regulations require that one of eight triggering events must occur in order for an entity to be required to file a Form 1099-C. One such triggering event, referred to as the 36-month rule, occurs when the creditor has not received payment of the debt within a 36-month period.

ACA International and other interested parties suggested the 36-month rule inadvertently requires debt purchasers to file a Form 1099-C even if the debt had not been discharged. The IRS and Treasury Department agreed it is appropriate to limit the application of the 36-month rule to entities for which the rule was originally intended in order to avoid premature reporting of cancellation of debt.

As a result, the new regulations eliminate this triggering requirement for debt purchasers and other entities. Most debt purchasers will no longer be required to file a Form 1099-C based on the sole fact payment was not made on the debt within a 36-month period. Debt purchasers are still required to file a Form 1099-C if another triggering event occurs.

The temporary regulations also provide clarification on filing requirements for debt purchasers in previous tax years. The regulations state debt purchasers who were required to file a Form 1099-C in a tax year prior to 2008 because of the 36-month rule, but failed to do so, the date of discharge of the debt is the first triggering event that occurred after 2007.

In addition, the Treasury Department and IRS are considering issuing guidance concerning requests to clarify the meaning of “stated principal” when it is applied to debt purchasers. A Form 1099-C must be filed for the discharge of a debt, which is any amount owed to an applicable entity, including “stated principal, fees, stated interest, penalties, administrative costs and fines.”

However, only the stated principal must be reported as discharged on Form 1099-C, which poses compliance concerns for debt purchasers who may not have sufficient information to separate the stated principal from other amounts due. ACA International stressed in its comments to the IRS that because debt purchasers may not receive a breakdown of amounts owed by a consumer, such as principal, interest and fees, this segment of the industry would face difficulty determining how much must be properly reported to the IRS.

I am not that familiar with the California laws they follow the FDCPA to a point, but not completely, and the Calif website is down (budget cuts?) You should take a peek at your states laws and see what they say. The states AG's office has a section on CA's. I don't really see how a DV can do anything if your dealing with a the OC. I mean you get your statements from them and that is the same a DV.

What is is your trying to accomplish here? To just get the phone calls to stop?

You got it. I have mixed feelings about talking with original creditors but so far have not dodged anyone. So far I have heard from 5 creditors, 3 of whom didn't try and manipulate me and listened to my sob story and that was that. But two, Citi and Macys, were manipulative and deceitful from the start which irritated me to no end and of course I gave them attitude about what they were doing. Just like to shut them up without forcing their hand.

SandyShores

Thanks BB your advice is always welcome.

So far I have been able to tolerate the calls but wanted to know how to stop them when and if they get annoying or start calling neighbors, have no real relatives to worry about. I don't want to file until Dec or Jan so I figure by day 100 they will not be so nice-the ones that are and wanted a way to shut them down without getting sued first. As for getting sued, I am fairly certain that I am judgment proof but don't want the aggravation. Stressful enough just realizing that I have to go bankrupt.

I am taking all calls so far and not dodging anyone. I figure that way I won't incur their wrath but you never know. :cool:

SandyShores

Just send them a C&D. That should keep the phone quiet.

Don't sweat it. It just debt that will eventually go away via BK or ride the SOL out.

That is an excellent point BB and points out the hypocrisy of the three ring circus which lending has become in this country. Nobody really knows or cares what you really owe, it's all about squeezing one payment at a time out of you, since the plan is for you to become a perpetual debt slave.

Just send them a C&D. That should keep the phone quiet.

Don't sweat it. It just debt that will eventually go away via BK or ride the SOL out.

You're right. Will do! I really don't mind talking to them that much as I've stumbled on a tactic that seems to be working-give them a 10 minute econ lecture that I outlined in a previous post. It tends to overwhelm them and they just want to get me off the phone. Much better than telling them to stop hounding me which tends to make them cranky.

Thanks all.

SandyShores