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Self-Employed and living on CC's -- at the end

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    Self-Employed and living on CC's -- at the end

    of our rope. I realize now that BK is our only way out. But I have lots of questions. Been trolling this board for awhile, but still have ???s.

    1) Was laid of from work 2 years ago, the day I returned from maternity leave with kiddo #3. Wasn't just me, everyone was gone. Had significant CC debt, but we were managing. Used my savings (was going to go to big new house) to live on for awhile. DH was self-employed PT and was PT stay at home dad with other kids.

    2) Refi-'d the house with a pick-a-payment plan. Basically have been paying less than the interest owed for almost two years. Never been late (EVER EVER on house payment). Only refied for what was owed, not the value of the house. We'd planned on moving and didn't want to drain the equity -- wanted it there for BIG NEW HOUSE (what a pipedream that was!).

    3) I don't want to put son #3 in daycare. Not going to happen. This is NON NEGOTIABLE. I missed a ton with kids #1 & #2 b/c of my demanding work load. Won't miss this one. Parenting is too important.

    4) DH's business couldn't pay the bills, we used the business' generous line of credit to buy a new business. First year was a LOT tougher than we thought it would be. Had to replace the equipment, payroll expenses were higher than we thought, then GAS went thru the roof and ate into are meager profit margin. We used remainder of LOC for living expenses and to pay the monthly LOC payment. Shell game 101. We are in slow season right now and busines won't pick up until March/April. Goes like gangbusters in the Spring (weather permitting) and summer, then eases in the fall and goes to ZERO in late November - February.

    5) I recently started another business and have used CC's to fund it. I've used another LOC and CC's to pay the printer and mail houses. I've had to use the CC's to pay other vendors while I kickstart this business into turning a profit. Not necessarily a profit, but income exceeding expenses (less debt incurred) should happen by mid year. We'll need to charge the next issue's printing. But after that It should be self-sufficient.

    6) I've recently liquidated some stock I forgot I had (yes, I forgot about it -- it was purchased a long time ago and I was going thru old papers and found the folder). Not much, but it will help with living expenses for the next month.

    7. DH decided to buy a beverage distribution biz opp to get us thru winter. This has turned out to be a total bust. We were basically scammed. We used a CC to fund it. We have 10K of product in our garage an no-one will buy it. We are so hosed, it's not even funny.

    8) Property taxes are due by end of month. Guessing we'll charge them to keep the city/state/county from getting their hands on the house.

    10) The most significant single purchase item we've put on CC's is new carpeting. Did this for health reasons as we have mold growing under the carpet in the kids rooms. Old cat had bladder problems. My son's pediatrician strongly recommended we change it. We didn't go get $8 sqyrd flooring, but got the most economical one we could find.

    9) Assets:
    *About 25K in a 401K/IRA (exempted)
    *The house (homestead exemption in TX, lived in it for almost 10 years, value is irrelevant),
    * 2 cars both owe more than they are worth -- I want to keep them and will continue paying for them.
    * Kids have about $2000 combined in their savings accounts. This is THEIR money, not ours. Some was Grandma set up a savings fund before she died, others is their money they earned or cash gifts.
    * Our house is decorated a-la garage sale. So contents are pretty much worthless.
    * Business assets: New computer (old one was 8 years old and crashed and burned) $2000, Lawn equipment and stain equipment-$2000, Sheds for stain storage (can't keep this stuff in the garage--fumes leaked into the house, causing asthma irritation) $700

    10) Current income: -29,000 per last years taxes. It was a very very very rough year.

    Questions:

    How long should i wait after I charge the taxes to proceed with BK filing?

    Because i've basically lived on the CC's for awhile, will the trustee come back to me and accuse fraud?

    I know the houses and cars are safe (will be re-affirmed) as well as the 401Ks, but will the kids assets be taken? Or what about the business assets?

    The businesses are all DBA's, not LLCs. If I declare BK, can I re-open them as LLCs? Or are they history?

    Yeah, we've screwed up big time. I've been battling the debt since DH was laid off 7 years ago. Each time we almost got it paid off something would come up. For the last few years we've lived with our heads in the sand and would deal with it "later". Now $130K later, it's time to face the music.
    Last edited by OnlyBrokeOnce; 01-14-2006, 09:35 AM.

    #2
    dont worry. we all have these problems here. you are among friends

    its a lot to read. i always recommmend using an attorney and even more so now with the new laws. and with business' it gets even worse to be very honest.

    as for screwing up... you think someone here filed bankruptcy after doing everything perfect? hehe you are part of our family now! welcome

    can you explain "How long should i wait after I charge the taxes to proceed with BK filing?" a little more.

    also are you going to file a chapt 7, 13 or business 11?
    Im not an attorney or a trustee. You cant trust me either though!

    [x] - Done with 341? Join the 60 Day Club! ___________[x] - Im Discharged! Whoo Hooo!
    [x] - Poll: Should I File Pro-Se ____________________[x] - New BK Law: Median Income, Means Testing and Presumptive Abuse
    [x] - Zombie Debt Collectors Dig Up Your Old Mistakes _-[x] - Bankruptcy Law Resource
    [x] - Need A Fast Answer? Available 24/7!--__________[x] - Dont Be A Hero On Your Budget - You Wont Get An Award!

    Comment


      #3
      Since the business are all dba's, the debt rests on us personally, so we'll be going the chapter 7 route. We sooo fall under the means test income level.

      In order to keep our property taxes up to date, we're going to have to charge them. How long after that should we wait? Is 60 days too soon?

      Because I've used the CC's for living expenses (not taking cash advances, except on the LOC's), but charged everyday stuff like groceries.

      We've been playing the shell game, transfer money from LOC to a low-interest card, to use the LOC again. Stuff like that. Will 60 days be too soon for this as well?

      We were very good this year at XMAS and paid cash for 98% of Xmas --- and stayed within a reasonable budget. (DH usually goes overboard, but I reeled him in!).

      I called legalhelp.com and they treated me like a deadbeat. I will NEVER call them again. "What do you mean you've used your CC to pay living expenses! Call us back in 6 months. No, I don't have time for more questions if I can't help you right now!".

      Comment


        #4
        some help they are lol.

        the new laws are tougher for sure and we are all learning them. 60 days is kinda tight. i think most of it is now 90 days. remember that it can still cause problems for you even if its within say 6 months. creditors can come back and want their money no matter what but usually outside of 6 months for large purchases or cash advances, etc is safer.

        i do think you need to save some money to pay an attorney. also, remeber that as soon as you put a down payment on an attorney that that dates gets entered into your petition and they know when you decided to file bk. they will scrutinized everything just prrior to that and at after that point usually.

        consultations with attorneys are free. i would take advantage of it. you will learn a great deal. and you will become more confortable with what direction you are going.
        Im not an attorney or a trustee. You cant trust me either though!

        [x] - Done with 341? Join the 60 Day Club! ___________[x] - Im Discharged! Whoo Hooo!
        [x] - Poll: Should I File Pro-Se ____________________[x] - New BK Law: Median Income, Means Testing and Presumptive Abuse
        [x] - Zombie Debt Collectors Dig Up Your Old Mistakes _-[x] - Bankruptcy Law Resource
        [x] - Need A Fast Answer? Available 24/7!--__________[x] - Dont Be A Hero On Your Budget - You Wont Get An Award!

        Comment


          #5
          you have to plan the bankruptcy. so you are on the right track. consider not paying your credit cards anymore once you are read to file. this way you will have money to pay for an attorney.

          also remember that they look at paying taxes with a cc and then not paying the credit card as potential fraud if they can show or make it look like you knew you couldnt pay, etc. it gets tricky.

          time between charges and filing the petition is the key. the more the better. 90 days is the minium imo if not 4-6 at least for large purchases with payments attempted to be made afterwards for 3+ months. thats my best guess. and you still never do know. its all up to the creditors.

          one thing to remember is that if an objection is made regarding a charge then the worst case is that you will owe for that charge only, not the entire amount on that account. and it might even be at reduced levels and maybe even payments without interest as well. lots of things can be worked out.

          but without an attorney then its really tough.
          Im not an attorney or a trustee. You cant trust me either though!

          [x] - Done with 341? Join the 60 Day Club! ___________[x] - Im Discharged! Whoo Hooo!
          [x] - Poll: Should I File Pro-Se ____________________[x] - New BK Law: Median Income, Means Testing and Presumptive Abuse
          [x] - Zombie Debt Collectors Dig Up Your Old Mistakes _-[x] - Bankruptcy Law Resource
          [x] - Need A Fast Answer? Available 24/7!--__________[x] - Dont Be A Hero On Your Budget - You Wont Get An Award!

          Comment


            #6
            I was in a similar situation. Go ahead and pay the taxes. Stop paying all credit cards except the one that you paid the taxes on. This will give the implication that you were at least trying to pay them. Wait at least 60 days before you decide on an attorney. When you do pick on be sure that the first time you met with him was 60 days after you charged the taxes and that you DON'T tell anyone you decided to file for BR before you paid your taxes on CC. That is the key. Because your income is low for a family of 5 you should really be ok all the way around. Good luck. (I am not an attorney this is just my advice form a lot of reading and reasearch.) Relax though. BR is a much easier process than most think.
            Chapter 7 Pro Se....Discharged Feb. 2006

            Comment


              #7
              Originally posted by cindylynnsmith
              I was in a similar situation. Go ahead and pay the taxes. Stop paying all credit cards except the one that you paid the taxes on. This will give the implication that you were at least trying to pay them. Wait at least 60 days before you decide on an attorney. When you do pick on be sure that the first time you met with him was 60 days after you charged the taxes and that you DON'T tell anyone you decided to file for BR before you paid your taxes on CC. That is the key. Because your income is low for a family of 5 you should really be ok all the way around. Good luck. (I am not an attorney this is just my advice form a lot of reading and reasearch.) Relax though. BR is a much easier process than most think.

              Whoa!! Pretty much since Christmas it's been CASH, CASH, CASH. (or the Debit Card where they don't take checks, that comes direct from Checking acct) I got caught in a situation this week and HAD to whip out a CC to cover my butt. We have appts with attnys for consultations starting next week. Depending on what the attnys have to say, and IF we do decide to file, it won't be for at least a couple months yet, prolly more like 3 months. Could we be getting caught in a legal snaffoo for meeting with attnys too early?? We are merely gathering info and weighing our options toward making a decision.

              We did the Credit Counseling thing. Not Pre BK Cert program, just sought a professional opinion of our finances. The Pre BK Cert is good for 180 days. But still, I didn't wanna start any clocks a' ticking until we knew something for sure, if you know what I mean.

              Also,........ An Attny from LegalHelpers.com wanted us to bring our checkbook with us to the Consult. I wondered why. No one else had asked for the checkbook. LegalHelpers.com wants you prepared to give them a $100 retainer fee check. So I said, "If we give you money, won't that be the date that gets listed as the start when our BK gets filed??" The attny told me Nope. He said a retainer fee simply says we want them to represent us sometime in the future, not that we have hired them for a particular service to be performed w/i a particular time frame. The attny said when we "decide" to file, and tell him Yes to move forward, that would be the date of the BK filing. Hummmmmmm..................
              Last edited by SinkingFast; 01-14-2006, 05:25 PM.
              Filed Ch 7 - 09/06
              Discharged - 12/2006
              Officially Declared No Asset - 03/2007
              Closed - 04/2007

              I am not an attorney. My comments are based on personal experience and research. Always consult an attorney in your area to address concerns related to your particular situation.

              Another good thing about being poor is that when you are seventy your children will not have declared you legally insane in order to gain control of your estate. - Woody Allen...

              Comment


                #8
                from cases ive seen in the past the date you make the first payment to the attorney is what some creditors try to use as you knew you were going to file for bk.

                of course they only use that if its to their advantage. most that complain say you knew it was months ago.

                ive always said based on everything ive seen, anything 2 years ago is pretty safe. period. roflmao.
                Im not an attorney or a trustee. You cant trust me either though!

                [x] - Done with 341? Join the 60 Day Club! ___________[x] - Im Discharged! Whoo Hooo!
                [x] - Poll: Should I File Pro-Se ____________________[x] - New BK Law: Median Income, Means Testing and Presumptive Abuse
                [x] - Zombie Debt Collectors Dig Up Your Old Mistakes _-[x] - Bankruptcy Law Resource
                [x] - Need A Fast Answer? Available 24/7!--__________[x] - Dont Be A Hero On Your Budget - You Wont Get An Award!

                Comment


                  #9
                  Beware of Legal Helpers!!! -- we felt like our attorney dumped us after all their money was received. He sent someone else to our 341 hearing, after assuring us he would be there, because our bk had alot of unusual circumstances involved -- income from a trust, a seller financed mortgage, etc. -- our calls were never returned, and talking to whoever happens to answer the phone is almost useless, because all they know about your case is what they can see on their computer screen. Our trustee requested additional info. within 10 days of our 341, we sent it priority mail to the attorney the day after our 341, and it was over 2 weeks before the trustee received it, and another 2 weeks before we received a letter from the attorney telling us what we sent was insufficient. If I had it to do over again, I would NOT use legal helpers.

                  Becky
                  A question that sometimes drives me hazy: Am I or are the others crazy? ~ Albert Einstein

                  Comment


                    #10
                    the problem is that most all 99.999999% of attorneys use staff to create the documents and deal with the clients. its their responsability to make sure stuff is submitted correctly. i hold them fully accountable. and i stay on top of them because i care about my case.
                    Im not an attorney or a trustee. You cant trust me either though!

                    [x] - Done with 341? Join the 60 Day Club! ___________[x] - Im Discharged! Whoo Hooo!
                    [x] - Poll: Should I File Pro-Se ____________________[x] - New BK Law: Median Income, Means Testing and Presumptive Abuse
                    [x] - Zombie Debt Collectors Dig Up Your Old Mistakes _-[x] - Bankruptcy Law Resource
                    [x] - Need A Fast Answer? Available 24/7!--__________[x] - Dont Be A Hero On Your Budget - You Wont Get An Award!

                    Comment


                      #11
                      I have a girl friend who popped out with, "Years ago when we filed BK,...." I was stunned. She didn't remember many details as it was 20+ years ago, they were young, didn't ask questions, did what the lawyer said, yah tee yah tee yah.

                      They were scheduled to go to the Court meeting where all the Creditors "might" be there (the 341?? I asked. She didn't remember what they called it), and their attny calls 2 days bef and says he can't be there. Something came up in another case in a different District and that he HAD to be in Court there that day instead. He'd arranged for an attny friend of his to attend the meeting with them and act on their behalf. They met this lady attny briefly at her office. The attny explained she'd been briefed on their case, had examined their papers, and didn't really expect any surprises. She told them what to expect and then they walked across the street to the courthouse. When they got to the court, the attny peeked in the door to see which creditors were there. Evidently, back then, creditors sent the same people to BK court, so the attny's got to where they recognized them. The attny said, "Oh MY GOD!!! American Express is here!!" She quickly briefed GF and her hubby on the questions AMEX typically asks and told them what to say.

                      GF said they went in and sat down to wait their turn. She said there were 2 older couples in front of them that they had to wait thru. The "Judge" (Trustee) really grilled both couples. Both had several creditors present. GF said there was lots of talk back and forth that she remembers as not sounding very good. And then it was their turn. GF said she was scared to death after what she'd seen. All the commotion with the 2 cases before theirs, and especially since "their" attny had made a big fluff about AMEX being there.

                      Their case was called. When it came time for the Creditors, the AMEX rep asked exactly what attny said he would and they answered like she had instructed. 2 minutes and the "Creditor" portion was over. No other creditors. 5 or so minutes and the whole 341 meeting was done.
                      Filed Ch 7 - 09/06
                      Discharged - 12/2006
                      Officially Declared No Asset - 03/2007
                      Closed - 04/2007

                      I am not an attorney. My comments are based on personal experience and research. Always consult an attorney in your area to address concerns related to your particular situation.

                      Another good thing about being poor is that when you are seventy your children will not have declared you legally insane in order to gain control of your estate. - Woody Allen...

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Originally posted by SinkingFast
                        "Oh MY GOD!!! American Express is here!!"
                        roflmao, great story! love it.

                        i wish creditors showed up to my meeting. i would have told them to go suck my eggs-n-bacon plater so to speak.
                        Im not an attorney or a trustee. You cant trust me either though!

                        [x] - Done with 341? Join the 60 Day Club! ___________[x] - Im Discharged! Whoo Hooo!
                        [x] - Poll: Should I File Pro-Se ____________________[x] - New BK Law: Median Income, Means Testing and Presumptive Abuse
                        [x] - Zombie Debt Collectors Dig Up Your Old Mistakes _-[x] - Bankruptcy Law Resource
                        [x] - Need A Fast Answer? Available 24/7!--__________[x] - Dont Be A Hero On Your Budget - You Wont Get An Award!

                        Comment


                          #13
                          I'm getting ready to file ch7 soon. I interviewed abotu 7 lawyers and found a great one. He's told me that the new laws basically change nothing. they add a lot of paperwork, but the end results are pretty much the same except for a tiny percentage of filers who are above the median income. sounds like ch7 should be no problem for you with all your debt and little income. good luck to you and your family.

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Originally posted by bkfiler
                            roflmao, great story! love it.

                            i wish creditors showed up to my meeting. i would have told them to go suck my eggs-n-bacon plater so to speak.


                            Show them your foot or nice smile and you'll have them on the run.

                            Comment

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