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Sometimes life's mistakes just suck for (almost)everyone involved

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    Sometimes life's mistakes just suck for (almost)everyone involved

    My 20 year old got married in Dec and they announced just after Christmas that she was pg. Well, I was dealing with it, other mom went even more psycho than she had been. Then son was admitted to the fire academy, that took him away for 3 months. DIL was staying with us, and he came home every weekend. Then she decided to go back home and try to patch things up with her mom. Next we knew, she and mom were jumping on my son because he wasn't supporting her, and wanted him to drop out of his schooling and come home. She didn't even come to his graduation. He started attending marriage counseling, she refused. A week after he came home, he was served with annulment papers, that he decided not to fight. So now it is as if the marriage never occured. Tonight he was served with a lawsuit for all of the things she left here when she left him. INcluding the Christmas gift that he bought and gave to me, the clothes she had bought for him, the sheets off their bed(he paid for), etc, etc. She even asked for some spices that had been left in the pantry. All of this knowing that DS had no money. I advised him to start saving as soon as he went back to work so he would have money for a lawyer when the baby was born. She has told him that he will NEVER see his child. And the hard head hasn't saved a drop. He lives with us. He is on our insurance(so is she, but I will be changing that tomorrow even though his rates will probably go back up). We paid off his jeep( 500$) with our tax return so we could drop it to liability and save 150 a month. And all he can tell me about where his money goes is that he spent $50 Friday on gas, and is having to send the IRS $53 because his previous employer didn't with hold right. I have been sitting back to let him make his own choices and decisions, but now I feel like I have to jump in a bit. The lawsuit is for $5000. DH knows a lawyer that he thinks will maybe help DS cheaply. He will call him tomorrow and see. I told DS he needs to lay everything on the table about the baby and see what his best options are. If they aren't even going to let him see the baby.... Geez, my first legal grandchild and I probably wont get to see him. I almost wish they would let him give up his rights.
    I have tried to raise my kids to do the right thing. But more importantly I want them to do things for themselves without my prodding, but DS is too bullheaded to even listen to anything we say. Both of us have been telling him for 3 weeks that he needed to make arrangements to get her stuff back to her. She still has his class ring, said she can't find it. She never made an attempt to contact us to see about getting her stuff back. Oh, and to top it all off, her mother is a lawyer herself, and a few lawyers were contacted by our preacher( who was doing the marriage counseling and tryying to be a gobetween). UPon hearing her name, the other lawyers refused to help. So we don't even know if a lawyer in this podunk town will even help him.
    And I dont understand how her mom can consider herself a Christian. The God I believe in doesn't intend people to treat other people like this, and we all used to go to church at the same place. In fact DS and this girl grew up together in the church.
    Sorry to vent so long, but I need to get this out to someone, and it has reached the point here right now that everyone is yelling and talking ugly whenever this is mentioned. I needed to get if off my chest so I could go to sleep I hope.

    And of course with the BK and trying to get DS #2 into college, I really have no money to spare for legal fees. And my dryer is taking longer and longer to get things dry. And really, I am feeling very hard hearted at times and think he made his bed, lie in it. But the mom in me wants to do anything in my power to help out my son, and I know that I just can't afford to. I couldn't even find the money right now to sue for grandparent visitation rights.
    So if you pray, just throw a few up for me.
    Last edited by arkienurse; 04-12-2006, 07:51 PM.
    Chapter 13 filed -8/12/04
    Plan approved- 7/11/05
    Date discharged--10-12-2007
    Date closed- 12/6/2007:yes2::yes2:

    #2
    All I can say is best of luck, and God Bless. Because as humans, no matter what decision we make there will be some flaw to it. I just pray you hit upon the one with the smallest hiccup.

    Comment


      #3
      FIND A QUIET PLACE - BREATHE DEEP - AND CALM DOWN!!!

      One of the hardest jobs in life is being a parent...... The mother instinct to "protect" our young even after they are grown never goes away.

      Now this is your situation I understand:

      You have a 20 yr old son, married with child on the way.
      Your son is back home at your house right now, and your DIL went back to her mommy lawyers house.
      They are split now - each wanting to go their own way and divide up stuff.....

      Okay,

      Marriage cannot be annulled if a child is conceived - divorce only !!
      She cannot refuse visitation rights, if he pays child support and is not under a court order for child abuse!
      He has rights also. And a Court hearing will determine them.

      You say you paid his auto off to lower his insurance, are you paying his insurance also?? I understand he's working, yet he seems to have no money???
      You are carrying her on your insurance - take her off!!


      NOW -MOMMA IT IS TIME FOR YOU TO STEP ASIDE!!!!!!!!

      DS took on the responsibility of being a husband and father when he married this girl and started making babies - make him accept that responsibility!!! This is not the time to bail out momma's boy! He is a grown man! Let him and force him to accept his responsibilities!!

      Don't get me wrong here! Advise him when necessary, and guide him along with his decisions - BUT MAKE THEM HIS DECISIONS!! He wants to be a man - now is the time to grow up!!

      If he's out of school (fire school) and back working it is time he supported himself!! He needs to be paying his own insurance, car payments, etc... even if you do carry him on your insurance. You are feeding him, giving him a roof over his head, that is ENOUGH.

      Yes, he needs to be putting his money back, contacting an attorney regarding his situation and trying to get his "ducks in a row" regarding his life.

      BUT HE WILL NOT DO THIS AS LONG AS YOU WILL DO IT FOR HIM!

      I don't mean to sound harsh, but this is life....... you can only "help so much" - and your intentions are heartwarming and well meant.

      NOTE: The HUMAN RACE is the only species that still supports and feeds their young after they are grown!!!!!

      Sometimes this does much more harm then good - though our intentions are well meant. No parent wants to sit back and watch the child struggle with life's problems.... yet often that's the very thing we NEED TO DO!!! If you were no longer living - who would do it for you?? They have to be able to take care of themselves!! And now is his time to "start learning"......

      Guide him, advise him, offer suggestions, steer him in the right directions - BUT do not pay the freight for him to solve this problem, do not make his decisions for him, as his decisions will affect the rest of his life especially the next 18 years with a child involved. If he has to do it - pay for it - he will have learned a valuable lesson in life!! And it will make him a better man in the future and for his next wife.

      Let him pay for his mistakes, make the decisions regarding them - learn from them -- then next time he won't be so quick to jump into marriage.... without some serious thought! If you bail him out - he will let you bail him out of the next problem also - at your expense also!!

      As for the girl - he may be better off by "letting her go"..... since especially since it seems mommy controls her life and her situations in life!!

      Marriage is a commitment between partners. Problems are to be settled by the partners. No matter what the outcome!

      You said they married the 1st of December, then after Christmas she's pregnant....... If you son was aware that she was pregnant before they married, and he is unsure that it is his child, a DNA test would be in order to protect his rights and his investment in the childs future. Many aman has paid child support for 18 years on children that are not theirs!

      As future grandparents, YOU also have rights. This young girl, nor her mother can stop those rights. Only you can give them up......

      Help you son by guiding him, offering suggestions, giving parental advice, but let the decisions and expense be his.......

      Remember, you have other children "watching"..... can you financially keep bailing them out??? The other children will make mistakes also in the future.....

      Also you are in bankruptcy which is really enough for you to be trying to handle at this time.... It's stressfull enough in itself!!!

      Maybe I have spoken words you don't want to hear, or maybe you think I should keep my opinon to myself..... that's fine!

      I read your thread, understand your love and concern and good intentions regarding your son. But I also read the stress, the questions of why he won't handle this situation, and the irritation at him not having any money (he works), and the struggle of your financial burden and going thru bankruptcy also at the same time....

      Momma, don't set yourself up for a nervous breakdown..... or stress panic attacks. You can't help anyone in that kind of shape - not even yourself.....

      My thoughts on your thread,

      Minny
      Last edited by Minnymouth; 04-13-2006, 05:37 AM.
      Minny

      "It's amazing the paths that our feet sometimes follow in life".

      My suggestions are from "personal experience" and research only. Do not consider this as legal advice. Each bankruptcy case is different.

      Comment


        #4
        thanks to everyone for advice

        I am feeling much better now.
        Wenderful:
        As to annulment vs divorce, they chose that route to be rid of him before the baby came. In Arkansas, you cannot get a divorce if you are pregnant, even if the baby belongs to someone other than the husband. I tried searching to see if you get an annulment but couldn't find anything to say yay or nay. Kinda beside the point as it is done by now. For a reason for the annulment she used" I did not consent to the marriage because he misrepresented certain things." And if I understand right, an umarried father has no rights unless he takes the mom to court.
        I asked him if there was a chance the baby wasn't his- he is 99% certain that it is his, but of course he will do a DNA before paying any support.
        Yes he wants to give back her stuff. We packed the last of it up last night, along with MY smoothie maker and any canned goods that she had bought while here. But we want to make sure that there is a legal trail for it being given back, to make sure that she doesn't try to claim it all wasn't there or something.

        DOA, thanks for the word of support. Hope you are doing ok. I am learning how to assist on cardiac surgery, you just come to Arkansas and I will take care of you. We have a brand new OR, supposedly better than Debakey's OR in Texas.

        Minnie:
        I have no intention of just bailing him out, but it is so annoying when he wants to sit back and do nothing, and yet gripe about everything. She even wants back a tshirt and baseball cap that she bought him well before they were married. There would be no division of stuff, she wants it all. And he said she can have it, he just wants it to be over.
        Yes, he is on our insurance because ,,,, well because we have never made him get his own. He has always paid his share to me and I pay the whole bill. When he went to the fire acadamy, we agreed to pay his insurance for him the 3 months he was in school. And it just dawned on me last night when all this happened that he had never given me his share for the April bill, a fact that he needs to rectify tomorrow when he gets paid. He was making his own car payments since he graduated. He only lacked 300 having it paid off when he got out of school, so we paid it off for him, because I was thinking about getting the insurance down before younger DS's SSSurvivor bennys were gone.

        ""BUT HE WILL NOT DO THIS AS LONG AS YOU WILL DO IT FOR HIM!""

        See, that is why I stood back and let the annulment go through without him answering it, even though he didn't misrepresent himself or his situation to her. He is grown and needs to take care of his own things. But last night I just got so d**** p*** off, that I asked hubby to call someone he knew to see if he could help out. Because what happens if he returns it to them on his own, and they claim he didn't, or he broke something on purpose?? They might even try to come after us since the stuff has been at our house, under our care since she left.
        And he can't work as a fireman until he turns 21, but there is a waiting list to get in the acadamy, so when his number came up, he took it, because otherwise it might take another year or 2 for him to get accepted to the class again. He changes tires and oil right now for one of the local garages. Good honest work, but not so good pay. And as I said, he has an inability to save, but he gets that from his dad.
        And no Minnie I am not offended in the least by anything you or anyone else said. If I thought I would be, I would have kept it to myself. I can not afford to bail him out, and he knows it. The other kids have watched and hopefully learned from his mistake. From the time he and she started dating, I had a bad feeling because of the mom's reputation. But I knew if I told him to get rid of her, that would just push him to her even faster.

        Hubby says his lawyer friend is willing to help DS get the items returned in a proper legal fashion, so all is as well as it can be right now.
        Chapter 13 filed -8/12/04
        Plan approved- 7/11/05
        Date discharged--10-12-2007
        Date closed- 12/6/2007:yes2::yes2:

        Comment


          #5
          Since when can you get an annulment in any state if the wife is pregnant...... I'm sure she married of her own free will.... and most states a divorce is not granted till after the baby is born....

          Your attorney friend needs to look into that annulment... and the laws. I'm also glad to hear he is going to handle the exchange of property.

          Did you son sign the annulment papers?? Did you see them? What is the legal age in your state.... 18 or 21? Did her mom have to sign for her to marry?

          Yes it's best these two go their own ways..... better now than later...

          And yes daddys that pay child support DO HAVE RIGHTS and so do the grandparents.... married or annulled! Be sure your attorney friend checks into this for you!

          I'm glad to hear that you are not "bailing him out"..... that's good MOM! Time to stand on his own two feet, and accept his responsibilities. Will make him a better man! If he blows it, he will learn from his mistakes......

          More than likely he will be paying child support for the next 18 years.... that will be an eye-opener for him!! Even if he signs over his parental rights, he will still pay child support..... in most states.

          Tell him "WELCOME TO THE REAL WORLD" - GET OUT YOUR POCKETBOOK AND PAY THE FREIGHT!!!

          Shame these kids have to learn so young how life really works......

          Stand by him, guide him, suggest options to him, warn him of his decisions he makes, and how they will affect him the rest of his life....

          And then you have done your part.

          Financially, let him pay his own freight to get out of this. You have your own burdens right now..... and its time he stood on his own legs and accepted his.....

          Hang in there mom, it will get better for you I hope......
          Get this bankruptcy behind you, and hopefully the future will straighten itself out to a "dull roar".....

          Minny
          Minny

          "It's amazing the paths that our feet sometimes follow in life".

          My suggestions are from "personal experience" and research only. Do not consider this as legal advice. Each bankruptcy case is different.

          Comment


            #6
            update

            Well, DS's lawyer made arrangements, and DH and DS, along with lawyer, took all of the stuff to her lawyer's office. They went over the list together, and her lawyer says as far as he is concerned this matter is closed. Also said he had been trying to contact her for several days and no one was answering at any of the numbers he had for her or her family.
            The lawyer didn't ask DS for any money up front, so don't know what the bill will be, but he did say that after all this was settled, he would help him with the child visitation/support issue.
            DS gave me partial payment on his car insurance/cell phone with the promise of more weekly.

            So I am feeling more serene in my life right now. ( also helps that I am drinking rum and Tab . I have a week of call coming up starting Monday, so I am enjoying it right now. Will be no more for 2 weeks, so it tastes mighty good right now.
            Chapter 13 filed -8/12/04
            Plan approved- 7/11/05
            Date discharged--10-12-2007
            Date closed- 12/6/2007:yes2::yes2:

            Comment


              #7
              Glad to hear things are starting to get settled some.....
              And yes, I'm glad to hear your attorney friend is helping him.... That's an eye-opener for your son too...(all the stuff involved).

              A toddy for the body never hurt anyone - just the abuse of it!!

              Here's hoping the future is a LITTLE KINDER to all of us!!!

              Minny
              Minny

              "It's amazing the paths that our feet sometimes follow in life".

              My suggestions are from "personal experience" and research only. Do not consider this as legal advice. Each bankruptcy case is different.

              Comment


                #8
                She may not have a choice about your Son being involved in the child's life.

                If she tries to draw State benefits for the child, the State is gonna want for someone else to pay.

                That's what happened to my nephew. He and girlfriend split up, him not knowing she was pg. 3 years later, the State comes to him for child support and medical for a daughter nephew did not know he had. The Mom wasn't gonna give visitation, and wasn't even gonna tell the name of the father, but the State cut off her water for the baby. No welfare, food stamps, AFDC, medical. No nothing. So GF had to fess up.

                Nephew requested a paternity test and then started paying as ordered. But he also petitioned the Court for visitation and custody. At first, visitation was limited and supervised with no custody. It took a while to prove worthiness to the Court, but now nephew has joint custody, and gets his daughter every weekend, and every other holiday.
                Filed Ch 7 - 09/06
                Discharged - 12/2006
                Officially Declared No Asset - 03/2007
                Closed - 04/2007

                I am not an attorney. My comments are based on personal experience and research. Always consult an attorney in your area to address concerns related to your particular situation.

                Another good thing about being poor is that when you are seventy your children will not have declared you legally insane in order to gain control of your estate. - Woody Allen...

                Comment

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