Bankruptcy discharge Best Buy and Bass Ass.

[down @ out]

Received my chapter 7 bankruptcy a few months ago and have now gotten two letters from Bass And Associations claiming that they represent Best Buy and that Best Buy has a security interest in items I purchased with the Best Buy Credit Card.

The letters are non specific and do not really say what it is I have from Best Buy. It appears they want me to self-incriminate myself as to the items involved and arrange to have them returned. I guess the next part of this scam they are pulling is to have me return the letter with a list of items and they in turn will offer to let me keep them by paying say only 50% over the next 4 months.

Believe the best strategy is to simply ignore them till they call and then demand they produce proof they actually are entitled to represent Best Buy. Also demand they identify just exactly what it is they say I have of Best Buy`s.

This should cause them a bit of heartburn and require them to burn some cash up. Assume they can actually come up with something the next strategy would be to simply say I don`t have the item and it was returned months ago. They then can actually take a hike or lets go to court where they can seek a replevin motion to come take a look see at my place to see if I have anything. This will produce nothing and will require they burn up more cash.

It seems to me if this bunch of thugs wanted to do the right thing they would have simply shown up at the 341 hearing and we could have worked out a court approved repayment plan for the value of the item instead of this bs. Basically these bums are trying to circumvent the court and intimidate folks into paying full price for things instead of the value of the item at the time of the bankrupcy petition.

Appreciate any thoughts.

Thanks

[gacreditguy]

same boat with them here.. Next Friday is the last day creditors can file an objection to my case..

there was someone at my 341 representing Bass & Assoc for two sep accounts and I did not sign anything there. Made an offer through my attorney, they counter offered and I did not accept.

going to let it go ahead and be discharged and if they try to contact me AFTER discharge I will do nothing but ignore them..

they would have to do a lot of work to come and get the stuff you have. mind you, they may just do that but it is unlikely.

honestly, the way I see it, they can come righ ton out and pick it up if they want..

[down @ out]

bankruptcy discharge Best Buy and Bass Ass.

Looks like we are in the same boat sorta speak. No one showed up at my 341hearing and that is what really burns me. The honorable thing to have done would have been to show up and we work something out under the supervision of the court.

For them to simply wait in the bushes like a snake until after the discharge and then send a fill in the blank letter asking you to tell them what you bought from Circuit City a year or so ago is nonsense. Guess I could tell them I remember buying a Barry Manilow disc and they are welcome to it. Beyound that they will have to tell me what they claim I have.

At the end of the day a bankruptcy is tough enough and their strategy of waiting till after the bankruptcy justs adds more grief to the pile. They probably figure that you are so relieved to be discharged you will do anything just to get this one little old creditor out of your hair.

Well they can just kiss my confederate well you know. I am dedicating myself to messing with their heads as much as humanly possible.


Thanks for the comment.

[SinkingFast]

Now this is just my understanding of what "can" happen in this situation,.......

HSBC, or whatever the heck their name is, backs the Best Buy LOC. There was a little clause in your contract with them that made your purchases at Best Buy "secured". And now HSBC or HBSC or whatever it is, sold your debt to Bass and Ass for pennies on the dollar. Now Bass and Ass is trying to collect their profit $$ from you. Any items they can recover to sell or twisting your arm into agreeing to cash settlement would greatly improve their profit margin.

OK,........... I've been reading info other places. Including a Forum for Collectors. If Bass and Ass has the paperwork and can prove what you bought then they do indeed have a case against you to get back the "secured" items. There are more than a few lawsuits where the Creditor won and the debtor lost, based on CC statements proving the debt was really owed. So they send you this letter threatening you, trying to get you to pay up some money not to have to return the items.

That's probably the problem tho. Bass and Ass doesn't have the actual purchase statements proving what you did or did not buy. Bass and Ass bought the debt but doesn't have the corresponding documentation. Right now, they are just fishing, like you said, to get you to tell on yourself. A lot of what happens from here is decided by the person handling your case for Bass and Ass. If that collector smells the potential for a big pay-off, they will push the case to the hilt.

CC Statements and purchase receipts could prove to be a problem for you as well, down the road. Did you save all your receipts when you purchased from Best Buy?? Because if HSBC turns over your purchase statements and charge account agreement terms to Bass and Ass, then Bass and Ass has suitable evidence that will stand up in Court that your debt to them was secured. And if they take the trouble to go to Court, they won't want the items back at that point, you'll have to pay up the $$$ plus their Court costs. And these lawsuits against debtors can be pursued in BK Court or your State's Court under the State's SOL Laws. Whichever gives Bass and Ass the best leverage.

Now here comes the wrinkle in the ointment on the SOL rules. I read about one case in Ohio where the debtor claimed the Suit was beyond the 4-6 years SOL laws applicable to open ended, revolving charge accts. The creditor argued that because the debt was secured, the charges fell into Written Contracts category allowing for a 15 year SOL instead. The Court agreed with the Creditor. Considered the debt a Written Contract, and allowed 15 years from the date of purchase to collect the debt.

It's a high stakes game of Chicken. Bass and Ass is hoping you'll flinch first, tell on yourself, and pay up some money. If not, they can get your CC statements and the terms of agreement from Best Buy, and pursue you legally if it's worth their time and trouble. So it kinda comes down to what you bought, how much you charged, your State's SOL on Written Contracts, and/or whether or not you declared the purchases Secured Debt on your BK petition. If they do come after you, and you loose in Court, you not only pay back the $$'s of the purchases, but all of Bass and Ass's legal costs as well.

Not saying that's what will happen in any particular case. But it has happened in the past.

Many of us here have been quick to bash the CC industry as a whole becasue they can change the rules of the game at any moment. Jack our minimums required, jack our interest rates, tack on outrageous fees and penalties. But they are teddy bears compared to the next layer below them. The people they wash their hands of our debt to. The Collections Agencies. Those people are real sharks. And the sad part is, they have Court opinions to back them when they come after BK Filers long after the BK is discharged and closed.

[SinkingFast]

Here's a link to what you're up against with this company:

http://www.bass-associates.com/collections.htm

And another link:

http://www.bass-associates.com/bankruptcy.htm

They know their biz and they have their bases legally covered on every level. Local, State, Federal, and BK Courts.

[down @ out]

Bass and Ass

Thanks for the follow up comments. Your points are well taken.

For now I think the best thing to do is nothing. Perhaps they will go away perhaps not. Believe if they don`t having them tell me what they believe I owe or have is the next step.

They cannot collect what is owed because the debt is discharged. I did include Best Buy on the petition as a non-secured debt. Not sure how that impacts all of this.

If they pursue this believe the next step is simply have enough evidence avaible to suggest to the court the item was returned to best buy and see what happens. Not sure how they can prove the item was not returned if one has a signed document showing something was returned.

Really wish they had simply done the honorable thing to begin with and discussed this at the 341 hearing. But honestly after all of that mess I am not going to get too nuts over this. Believe part of their stratege is simply to wear you down so you will pay them something to get them out of your life.

Believe I will chat with them for years if they want and simply not play their game. If we go to court so be it. There are worst things and there are many ways to play this.

What those folks are doing is simply not right. Hell I had rather throw the Barry Manilow disc in the trash than give them anything.

thanks for the input.

[thompsoj]

I believe they must provide proof of a valid security agreement including evidence that a UCC 1 has been recorded with the Secretary of State on the alleged secured property. 99% of the time they can not provide this. Just ignore as I am doing. They don't want the item they want the money.

[gacreditguy]

if worse comes to worse, tell them to come and get the stuff..

[down @ out]

Bass Ass

Actually the more I listen to you folks the more I am convinced the best thing to do is just stay away from the evil ones(Bass Ass and Associates)

Really anything you communicate to them about what you may have will be used against you. Seems the only thing you can say is provide proof and then if that is given say yep but I returned it. Anything else can get you in deep trouble.

For example a confession will led them to say fine, we`ll pick it up or settle for say 50% of what you owe. They already know what Best Buy says you owe so if you fudge what you say you have or simply don`t remember what you bought with their card they can simply go along for a while with you and get you to send say $500.00.

After you start feeling all warm and cozy they call back and say well what about the rest of the stuff? You have given them a list and now they get a list from Best Buy that shows you got $1000.00 more stuff.

Now they have you by the short hairs. You have given them a signed confession, money and they can come after you for more.

Man these folks are just plain evil.

[clb123]

Here's a link to what you're up against with this company:

http://www.bass-associates.com/collections.htm

And another link:

http://www.bass-associates.com/bankruptcy.htm

They know their biz and they have their bases legally covered on every level. Local, State, Federal, and BK Courts.

These are basically just their own advertisements for their services aren't they?

[SinkingFast]

Those links came from their website. So yes, that's a description of the types of services they provide.

But, I've read about these same techniques at a Collection Agency's/Collector's Forum webite as well. One in particular has a section where debtors can ask the Collectors questions. That's where I learned about the Ohio SOL on revolving vs. written contracts. The collectors know all the case law to substantiate their claims. In fact, one of the Collectors cited several cases on file in Ohio Court to substantiate the 15 year SOL on secured purchases made with store cards. And Collections Agencies such as Bass and Ass. have BK attnys on retainer and use attnys all over the country. So they aren't limited to Fed Codes only. Their attnys know the State and Local laws as well. If they can't get you one way, they'll come at you another way.

A major key is proving their claim. If you tell them, you've done half their job for them. If Best Buy still has your purchase records on file, they can electronically submit them to Bass and Ass for use in the Collections case.

Another factor is the $$ amount the debtor owes. Is it worth $300/hr or so to them to pursue you. I'd think not over one Barry Manilow CD. But if you bought a computer, and all your kitchen appliances, and a home entertainment system, and ran up quite a tab there, Best Buy will probably vigorously persue the case.

[aa06a47]

Did they file a claim with the court during your BK as having a secured claim? If not, they might be in violation of the law. Try and contact your trustee if you don't have the paperwork and see if he can tell you if they filed a claim. You might even get some money out of Bass & Ass for being such fishey butts. In my opinion, they have violated the automatic stay which becomes a permanent stay once the bk is discharged.

As you said, this should have been handled during the BK, especially if they were listed on the BK.

[no_it_all]

I believe they must provide proof of a valid security agreement including evidence that a UCC 1 has been recorded with the Secretary of State on the alleged secured property.<snip>

UCC 1 is not always required, especially with a "purchase money security interest" clause which is the language used in some revolving credit agreements..For example, Sears does not need to file a UCC 1 but they do have a security interest....As does John Deere on their revolving credit card and apparently Best Buy...

[robivi3]

A little advice, don't call them. Be very careful if you respond in writing. I would ignore them. They really don't want the items. If you can produce the items, maybe. Get a letter from them in writing that you returned everything. I did with one company and they cleared my credit after a letter from my Attorney.

[SinkingFast]

UCC 1 is not always required, especially with a "purchase money security interest" clause which is the language used in some revolving credit agreements..For example, Sears does not need to file a UCC 1 but they do have a security interest....As does John Deere on their revolving credit card and apparently Best Buy...

And from what I read at the Collections Forum, you don't have to sign a contract to enact this agreement. When you accept the CC/LOC and use that card the very first time, you are acknowledging you agree to the terms of the LOC with the Creditor.