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Business Owner with lots & lots of debt

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    Business Owner with lots & lots of debt

    I'm in TX if that helps.

    Basically, here's the sit. We own a few businesses - all dba's. We have a $40K personal LOC and several smaller credit cards on Company A (but secured personnally). Company A was in business for about 4 years and had stellar credit -- just didn't make much money. DH worked PT with biz so that he could be home after school with kiddos. I worked FT until kid #3 came along and I was laid off (with lots of other folks)!

    In an effort to keep me home with family, we decided to let Company A die a natural death and used LOC to buy another biz -- more FT income. It's seasonal and we under-estimated the length of down-time. We used the remainder of the LOC to pay bills and survive. This biz has less than $6K in physical assets at any given time. It's a low overhead business.

    During this time, I also started my own business, another DBA. I used credit issued to Company A to help finance this venture. It hasn't made money yet , but is getting there. This biz is a publishing co and has no physical assets. Monies that come in, pretty much go to the printer, postage and commission for the salesrep.

    During downtime DH got desperate and decided to buy a distributorship for a new beverage. We now have about $10K worth of inventory that no-one will buy...and lots of personal debt since he used a credit card to finance it (inventory + territory). STUPID STUPID move!

    Add all this up with personal debt that mushroomed over the years and we are stretched to the hilt -- about $150K total in unsecured debt.

    We do have 2 car loans that are VERY reasonable -- one a 0% interest and another at 9% (used car). Both are very reliable and will be exempt (TX allows 2 vehicles).

    Last issue is home mortgage. After layoff, we refie'd on an ARM and with a "pick your payment". This allows you to pay the minimum amount and defferred intersted is added back to your balance. Given the amount of equity in our home and the belief that new biz would take off, we planned to sell house, use equity to pay down debt and upgrade to a slightly larger, newer home. Real Estate mkt got wacky and our home wouldn't sell. So we now have $3,000 in deferred interest sitting out there.

    Okay, here are my ???'s.

    1) If we file BK (CHapter 7, we have no real assets and are well below the means test), will we have to officially close the businesses. Seasonal biz is our only source of income. Publishing biz is soooooo close to turning a profit. But it will be awhile before profit turns into substantial income.

    2) If it mean't closing the business, could be re-structure these businesses as LLC's and close the dba's? All of the debt is personnally secured. The only debt under a business name is the debt from company that died the natural death.

    3) Is house at risk (in TX we are homesteaded and houses are exempted -- we've been in it 10 years so not affected by new laws) because of defferred interest? If we don't have the rest of the debt, we could afford to pay real payments and not this stupid minimum.

    4) I know I can't file BK right now because of balance transfers used to just survive. Once I make the decision to go down this path we plan to just stop paying the CC's so that we can actually live on what we make and stop digging the holes. Plan on waiting about 130 days before doing a pre-cert, but will have to stop paying cc's before then.

    Thoughts, advice?

    #2
    A few replies for you..

    1) If we file BK (CHapter 7, we have no real assets and are well below the means test), will we have to officially close the businesses. Seasonal biz is our only source of income. Publishing biz is soooooo close to turning a profit. But it will be awhile before profit turns into substantial income.

    >>> I would personally think so.. However, speak with an attorney for confirmation.


    2) If it mean't closing the business, could be re-structure these businesses as LLC's and close the dba's? All of the debt is personnally secured. The only debt under a business name is the debt from company that died the natural death.

    >>> Not really sure here.. I would think that closing the business is going to look best when it comes to filing.. Others may have better advise with this matter. Best to speak with an attorney who can tell you straight up what can and cannot be done. When i filed I had a home based business that I was preparing to close/sell and he advised me to close it entirely. I had a few folks interested and literally gave the business to them.


    3) Is house at risk (in TX we are homesteaded and houses are exempted -- we've been in it 10 years so not affected by new laws) because of defferred interest? If we don't have the rest of the debt, we could afford to pay real payments and not this stupid minimum.

    >>> Would depend ont he amount of equity you have in your home. I was afraid mine would be at risk but after speaking with the attorney, he said all was ok..


    4) I know I can't file BK right now because of balance transfers used to just survive. Once I make the decision to go down this path we plan to just stop paying the CC's so that we can actually live on what we make and stop digging the holes. Plan on waiting about 130 days before doing a pre-cert, but will have to stop paying cc's before then.

    >>> Speak with an attorney about this!!! I would suggest that you not let those cards go into default before you file. I filed on 1/29 and I paid every payment up until the day I spoke with the attorney and made the decision to move ahead. I have only one late appearing and did not see a huge score decrease. If you know this is something that will be done, be proactive about it and get your plan going now. No need to have all of the late payment and potential charge offs listed if they do nto have to be.


    I know I mentioned about spekaing to an attorney A LOT up there but if you not really familiar with the new BK laws it can get tricky. I was reading a few filings on PACER last night and there were oodles of cases I was looking at that were dismissed for ProSe filers because certain paperwork and items did not get submitted in time. Not saying that ProSe filers do not do a good jod at all, but having a good and experienced attorney can save you potential headaches down the road. Your case will likely not be a simple one due to the business(es) that you operate or have operated. I would truly suggest finding a good attorney and meet with them to discuss.
    Thanks,
    GaCreditGuy

    --*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--
    BK7 Filed : 01/29/2006
    341 Completed : 03/06/2006
    Deadline For Objections: 05/05/2006
    Discharged : 06/30/2006
    Case Closed : 06/30/2006

    Comment


      #3
      Originally posted by gacreditguy
      I would suggest that you not let those cards go into default before you file. I filed on 1/29 and I paid every payment up until the day I spoke with the attorney and made the decision to move ahead. I have only one late appearing and did not see a huge score decrease.
      Isn't it just too soon for your BK filing to effect your credit score? Once the BK discharge is reported won't your credit score drop to the level that it would have been if you had not made credit card payments for, say, 6 months?

      It seems to me that filing BK is the thing that most damages a person's credit score. So, after filing BK, would the credit score of a person who paid bills to the date of his BK filing be significantly different than the credit score of a person who didn't pay his bills for 6 months prior to the date of his BK filing? Do you have any specific experience or knowledge that would allow you to answer that question definitively?

      I've seen this point raised before on this forum, but I've never seen a definitive answer - just speculation.

      My guess is that once a person files BK, the prior payment history has little to do with one's credit score when the BK hits the credit reports. But that's just a guess on my part. I sure would like to find someone who knows for sure.

      A definitive answer to this question would certainly help those trying to manage their debt and credit while planning for BK.

      Comment


        #4
        Actually, post BK Credit score is based on lots of factors. Not just if you paid your payments right up to filing or not.

        There've been people here who paid their payments right up to filing BK. Then the Creditors report them 60-90 days late before they enter discharged in BK for the debt. Some Creditors report the time period from filing to discharge as delinquent on payments and then discharge the debt.

        Everybody's Credit score takes a hit for filing BK. But carrying a big debt load is also a drain on a person's Credit Score. So once the BK is filed and the debt starts dropping off, a person's score can actually rise from the hit of BK.

        Also, how long you've had credit prior to filing BK comes into play. How many positive accts showing closed by customer and paid as agreed has an impact as well.

        There's no magic formula for anyone person. Some people can afford to pay their payments right up to the day they file. Others can't. You do what you have to do and deal with what happens after that down the road.
        Filed Ch 7 - 09/06
        Discharged - 12/2006
        Officially Declared No Asset - 03/2007
        Closed - 04/2007

        I am not an attorney. My comments are based on personal experience and research. Always consult an attorney in your area to address concerns related to your particular situation.

        Another good thing about being poor is that when you are seventy your children will not have declared you legally insane in order to gain control of your estate. - Woody Allen...

        Comment


          #5
          Rover, once the bk is filed it hits your credit report and score within days. It is a major hit on the overall score. Let me explain, now this is only my personal experience I am talking about here.. When I filed I was current on all accounts and no late pays at all. Scores were mid-600's on all three CRA's and the main reason for that was a high percentage of utilization of a majority of my credit accounts. After the BK hit, my score lowered. However, when the creditors started zeroing out the balances and closing the accounts I started seeing the score rise again. It was a teeter-totter effect in my particular case.

          Now on the other hand.. If I were to have been late on all of or a majority of my accounts in addition to high utilizations, that would have been a double whammy right there and then when the bk hit it would have been even more damage. I understand that not everyone has had or will have this luxury and I agree with sinkingfast that you have to do what you have to do.

          All of my accounts are now showing $0 balances and closed. Some are showing errors on them and will need to be corrected and a few are not showing IIB yet either. From all of the information I have read, the hits for the BK are there and this is where I am today. As I get those errors corrected, and updated, I expect that I should see another rise of my scores as the info will be correct without any errors.

          I was fortunate enough and had the benefit of not having late payments on my reports for my accounts and it somewhat leveled things out.. I have kept track and honestly have only dropped a total of 30-40 points since I filed in late Jan. 2006. Now keep in mind I am single and have no family to support. Do not think for a minute that would have been the same if there were other people involved.

          That is why I was advising the original poster to NOT let late payments show on their credit reports and especially not let any of those accounts charge off if at all possible.

          I personally feel that being proactive with a BK is the best way to approach the entire process. When I visited my attorney he said I was one of the few that looked in the future and not at just today.. He said so many people who file wait until they cannot do anything else and things are spiraling out of control and things are already beyond the point of no reutrn and horribly bad.. He was impressed that I realized that the light at the end of the tunnel was OUT and decided to do something about it when I did.. Plus I was probably the most organized person he had ever met with. I am sure I gace the man headaches (thanks to everyone here and PACER. he told me to stay off it.. LOLOL).

          All in all, this is my advise.. Look at your situation and be realistic!. Most importantly, be true to yourself! You will make the right decision and know when move forward. Yes, it will be one of the hardest things that you will ever decide to do (it was for me). However, I cannot tell you what a difference it has made in my life.

          We are all here for you and I have grown so much over the past few months. This board is excellant and the advise is PRICELESS... This should honestly be a paid membership board and it would be worth EVERY PENNY!!!




          Originally posted by Rover
          Isn't it just too soon for your BK filing to effect your credit score? <no, once it is filed it hits within days> Once the BK discharge is reported won't your credit score drop to the level that it would have been if you had not made credit card payments for, say, 6 months?<I have never heard this. From what I have read - no. However, I may be wrong. Anyone know for sure?>

          It seems to me that filing BK is the thing that most damages a person's credit score. So, after filing BK, would the credit score of a person who paid bills to the date of his BK filing be significantly different than the credit score of a person who didn't pay his bills for 6 months prior to the date of his BK filing? <see my reply above regarding my own expreience thus far. I would tend to say yes it would be different. If you had no lates before then that is one "ding" that is not there to hurt your scores> Do you have any specific experience or knowledge that would allow you to answer that question definitively? <only from my personal experience and reading on this and numerous other boards>

          I've seen this point raised before on this forum, but I've never seen a definitive answer - just speculation.

          My guess is that once a person files BK, the prior payment history has little to do with one's credit score when the BK hits the credit reports. But that's just a guess on my part. I sure would like to find someone who knows for sure. <your prior payment history still plays a part in calculating your score as does numerous other things (public records, utilization, etc)>

          A definitive answer to this question would certainly help those trying to manage their debt and credit while planning for BK.<I fully agree with you. I can tell you that from my personal experience, managing my payments properly up to filing date has made a difference for me. I have not seen the 100-200+ point decreases as other have.>
          Last edited by gacreditguy; 05-09-2006, 12:49 PM.
          Thanks,
          GaCreditGuy

          --*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--
          BK7 Filed : 01/29/2006
          341 Completed : 03/06/2006
          Deadline For Objections: 05/05/2006
          Discharged : 06/30/2006
          Case Closed : 06/30/2006

          Comment


            #6
            Uh uhh, don't say that. LOL!

            Quoting GaCreditguy "This should honestly be a paid membership board and it would be worth EVERY PENNY!!!"

            Hey man, wait couple of months. I'm still broke. LOL!

            Well Not "Broke", just financially challenged.


            "So as a man thinketh, so is he"

            Comment


              #7
              Charge a membership fee to access this board? Most people who come here are about to file BK, in the process of a BK, or have recently been dicharged and are trying to rebuild their credit. Many are in a ch.13 in which they don't have much extra money to spend. Even though we would pay if we had to, I'm sure most people would rather the board remain free. It isn't often that you can find such useful information for no charge, and I'm sure every single person appreciates it greatly. How wonderful to see that there are still great people out there who are truly concerned about helping others. Keep the board free!

              Comment


                #8
                It was only a comment!!!! Did not say ANYTHING about saying they should do it!!! Simply saying that with all of the valuable advise here, I would not mind paying anything to have access to it..
                Thanks,
                GaCreditGuy

                --*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--
                BK7 Filed : 01/29/2006
                341 Completed : 03/06/2006
                Deadline For Objections: 05/05/2006
                Discharged : 06/30/2006
                Case Closed : 06/30/2006

                Comment


                  #9
                  'pay Me!!!!!""

                  Yeah - I Like That Idea!!!!

                  Lets See, What Would We Charge For Free Information????

                  Lol

                  :d
                  Minny

                  "It's amazing the paths that our feet sometimes follow in life".

                  My suggestions are from "personal experience" and research only. Do not consider this as legal advice. Each bankruptcy case is different.

                  Comment


                    #10
                    LOL.. let's get back to the original posters topic.. :-)
                    Thanks,
                    GaCreditGuy

                    --*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--
                    BK7 Filed : 01/29/2006
                    341 Completed : 03/06/2006
                    Deadline For Objections: 05/05/2006
                    Discharged : 06/30/2006
                    Case Closed : 06/30/2006

                    Comment

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