Assets?

[doc10house]

Sorry if this has been answered 100 times elsewhere, but I'm pretty new to the forums.

I've resigned to filing 7 and letting the bank take my $350000 house, because I can't even BEGIN to make the payments that were so easy to make a few months ago.

Thanks to advice on this site, and other sources, the plan is to try and get into an apartment ASAP, before we stop being current on bills, and stop paying on the house and the credit card bills. We've stopped using CC's as a result, and will use our cash stores to buy those necessities.

When we move, we're obviously going to take beds for us & our kids, dressers, and a chair or 2, plus the computer (paid for) my wife uses for work, and clothes to wear. I know I'll lose my beloved Apple Powerbook, because the debt is secured and I'm still paying on that account. I expect to leave the bulk of my furniture, exercise equipment, 51-inch TV, etc., in the house.

I know about exemptions, but I'm confused. Will/could they really take those necessary things, which I've had paid for for over 4 years, and make me repurchase them? Or is there a way to convince trustees they're not worth enough to do so? What's the best way to go into an attorney consultation in this regard?

Thanks.

[keepmine]

First of all, take all of your stuff including the Apple.
Just because it's secured does not mean you lose it. A lot of options from telling the creditor to come get it post bk {they don't want used consumer goods} to working out a settlement to everything in between.
When you see your lawyer, have a list of all of your personal belongings with an estimate of there orginal cost and age. This stuff is valued near garage sale. I know bk reform says mkt value but, what's the mkt value of 2nd hand consumer products? The trustee will have the expense of collection, storage, insurance and repairs and refurbishing as well as the cost of resale. Nobody goes to law school to run a "Sanford and Son" operation.

[lrprn]

Which state are you going to file in, doc10house?

Exemption types and amounts allowed for each vary depending on the state of residence or if federal exemptions are used. Also some states still allow a "wild card" exemption that can be applied towards smaller assets like your PowerBook as well. When you have your consultations with the lawyers, they can shed light on the exemption specifics in your state, if you have to use state exemptions or could use federal, and which is best in your situation.

[doc10house]

Thanks again...

I'll be filing in Indiana. They do have a wild card, but I'll likely use most of it for my kids' things. I want the transition for them to be as seamless as possible.

[Bobby'sGirl]

Are you and your wife filing jointly?

Then that $16,000 wild card exemption for the two of you will cover a LOT of things you have if you use "used, Goodwill type" values. And follow some of the posts here with a search on assets to see what other Chap 7 filers have been listing for values.

http://bankruptcyforum.com/showthread.php?t=6734&highlight=assets

Can either of your computers be considered "tools of the trade"? May be exempt under that classification and not have to go under that wild card amount. Some posters have indicated that unless you use federal exemptions, kid's stuff may not be considered your property. Your lawyer will give you an idea of what is acceptable in you filing district. None of my girls' personal belongings are considered part of my BK estate, and they are both my dependents although not minors. I know it seems overwhelming at the start, but hooking up with all of us on this forum will allow you to have a source of support and info not easily found elsewhere.

[bkbiker]

First of all, take all of your stuff including the Apple.
Just because it's secured does not mean you lose it. A lot of options from telling the creditor to come get it post bk {they don't want used consumer goods} to working out a settlement to everything in between.
When you see your lawyer, have a list of all of your personal belongings with an estimate of there orginal cost and age. This stuff is valued near garage sale. I know bk reform says mkt value but, what's the mkt value of 2nd hand consumer products? The trustee will have the expense of collection, storage, insurance and repairs and refurbishing as well as the cost of resale. Nobody goes to law school to run a "Sanford and Son" operation.

Nicely said keepmine,

Can you just picture the Trustee and all his lawyers and associates making $500.00 per hour; hiring his repo man making $100.00 per hour; plus transportation, storage, and insurance, auction cost; More $$$$$$$$, now they sell that apple on eBay for $199.00
Not very likely to happen; value that apple like you were going to sell it at your yard sale.
Also, you could say that it is a primary means of communication, in which case it would be exempt.

Good luck,
bkbiker

[SinkingFast]

In IN, each filer gets $8K to use anyway they want. So if a couple files joint, you have $16K to work with. No so much for Homestead, so much for vehicles, so much for household goods. You can apply the $16K any way you want. And because you're using State Exemptions, you aren't bound by the Federal "one computer, one TV, one radio" thing. What you have is what you have, as long as you can exempt it.

We moved to IN so we're also filing in IN. Our attny told us to inventory what's in our bedroom and the common use areas. The kids' rooms and things were just that. The kids'. For all other values to shop garage and yard sale, 2nd hand stores, newspaper ads, Goodwill and such. "After all, where do you buy an 8 year old sofa?", the paralegal said.

For us, our clothes were valued at something like $250 or $300. The paralegal was gonna write down $200, but I said Hubby has some suits. So she boosted up the value. Unless you've got fur coats and designer clothes and shoes, your values for clothes won't be too high.

I looked at second hand stores, Goodwill, garage and yard sales, even eBay. Some of the furniture items I just could not find. Goodwill has an online auction. So I got some of our values from there. Our attny asked if Goodwill's online auctin had an opening bid price set. Yep. So he said that was good and took it.

At the Goodwill auction site, used computers and laptops in working order only go for $100-$200 tops. That's monitor and all. Tower alone is $25-$50. A fancy leather sofa may not be more than $200 tops. Our whole household value was only like $2500.

Like Keep said,.......... Take everything with you that you have room for and wanna keep. Worry about secured or not later. Most attnys just use a generic "Household Goods" statement on that line anyway. Generally there's no itemizing. Chances are, you won't hear boo about secured things until way after the BK is said and done. Plus too, the Trustee doesn't make all that much money off of used furniture and such. Trustee's have costs too and they quick sale. It's easier for the Trustee to abandon Household items or negotiate a payment from you than to sieze and sell your things.

After your BK is said and done, Bass and Associates or some similar company will contact you. They buy up unpaid debts and then try to collect. And, at that, they don't know what you own that's secured. You'll get a letter from them wanting you to tell them what you have. Every person who's posted that they asked their attny about how to deal with them has been told either to ignore them or send them a letter saying "Included in BK".

[doc10house]

Gotcha

THANK YOU, SinkingFast. That's exactly what I wanted to know/hear.

[djk]

I would not leave anything in the house. Have a moving sale prior to moving.

[doc10house]

But...

isn't having a "moving sale" akin to pre-BK fraud (ie. getting rid of things so creditors can't take them), if I already am pretty sure we'll be filing? Or am I way off base?

[anonymuse]

isn't having a "moving sale" akin to pre-BK fraud (ie. getting rid of things so creditors can't take them), if I already am pretty sure we'll be filing? Or am I way off base?

First of all, not all pre-bankruptcy planning is fraudulent. I have had several garage sales over the past few years to keep myself afloat--BK was the furthest thing from my mind. Right now, weeks before filing, I'm off to have another one--I need the money to pay the lawyer. If you were selling the items and going on a pre-BK vacation to Tahiti, that would be one thing. But selling to have money to live on (utilities, food, etc), BK fees, pre-BK counseling, lawyer fees, and such is just wise spending--it's not keeping money away from the creditors. If you're going to give up the house, you should start looking for an apartment now--pre-BK. You need first and last month rent plus deposit.

[keepmine]

There's nothing wrong with just a garage sale to get rid of stuff you don't want to move. You are not going to get rich selling used furniture and clothes, etc.

[SinkingFast]

I'd tend to agree with Anon and others here.

If you're selling stuff to go on vacation, that's one thing. One last pre-BK fling would not set well with the Trustee or the Court.

Raising money to pay your attny, rent, security deposit, utilities bills, and such is something totally different.

Look at apts in your monthly rent range. See how big a place you're gonna be able to get. Go thru, look at your furniture and things. Decide what you'll need and want to keep. What you can and cannot part with. Then have a sale. Advertise for local pick-up only on eBay. Whatever.

[doc10house]

Thanks

This is all just so damn new to me, and not in a good way.