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The Shame of Bankruptcy

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    The Shame of Bankruptcy

    The July 26, 2006 post in Dr. Elizabeth Warren's online blog notes that shame is alive and well today in the vast majority of those who have to file bankruptcy - http://www.creditslips.org/creditsli...on_you_th.html

    "Shame on You: The Stigma Associated with Personal Bankruptcy

    In the late 1980s, when the upsurge in bankruptcies had just begun and folks were searching for explanations, cries of a decline in stigma rang out. Interestingly, despite an essential absence of data from debtors themselves, this explanation was long-lived. Indeed, it was cited frequently during the Congressional debates that preceded BAPCPA. But as any sociologist would tell you, a decline in stigma as an explanation just doesn't make sense. Rates of bankruptcy filings are cyclical; stigma does not wax and wane in that way.

    Just last month, Sociological Focus published my article, "Managing the Stigma of Personal Bankruptcy" (co-authored with Dr. Leon Anderson), in which I provide evidence that the stigma associated with filing is alive and well. For those unable to access the article, allow me to summarize. Although the sample was small, 95 percent of the debtors reported that they felt stigmatized by their bankruptcies. For example, a retired mail carrier stated: "I thought of it as a mark against my name . . . It was too embarrassing . . . I feel like I failed. You know, to go bankrupt, that's a sign of failure."

    Not only did the debtors vocalize their feelings of stigma, but they also managed it in ways that are classic among other stigmatized groups. For example, they tried to conceal their bankruptcies, especially from their parents. One man, a father of two young boys, reacted in the following way when he was asked if his mom knew he had filed: "OH HELL NO!!! No, no, no, no way, no way. Nope. And she won't ever know. Never! Never. . . . She'd be like, 'Argh, you piece of shit. Why did you do that?" Debtors also practiced avoidance, whereby they avoided situations that might expose them. An example of this was described by a woman who said that she would never again take her kids to their family dentist because debts to him had been discharged. Rather than risk the potential embarrassment, she concluded that they would have to find a new dentist. Finally, the debtors went to great lengths to differentiate themselves from all those other "deadbeats" out there who supposedly abuse the system. They insisted that their own bankruptcies were bankruptcies "of necessity," not extravagance or abuse. And finally, three-quarters of them insisted that under no circumstances whatsoever would they set foot in bankruptcy court again. One man, who blamed his wife for their bankruptcy, said that he would divorce her first. Another said that he'd kill himself before he'd file again. This is probably an exaggeration, but it demonstrates the power of the stigma of bankruptcy.

    I have no doubt that there are folks out there who file without feeling a shred of remorse or stigma. But my research suggests that they are the minority. For centuries, bankruptcy has been highly stigmatized. And, I would argue, it still is."


    AMEN, Dr. Warren! My husband's shame at our financial troubles kept us from seeking help for far too long, then the shame both of us felt delayed us filing bankruptcy for a year messing around with credit counseling when we should have filed Ch 13 instead.

    Do you feel shame about having to file or having filed bankruptcy? If you wish, you can register your vote in the attached poll - it's open for voting until August 10.
    41
    Yes
    43.90%
    18
    No
    29.27%
    12
    Sort of
    26.83%
    11

    The poll is expired.

    I am not a lawyer and this is not legal advice nor a statement of the law - only a lawyer can provide those.

    06/01/06 - Filed Ch 13
    06/28/06 - 341 Meeting
    07/18/06 - Confirmation Hearing - not confirmed, 3 objections
    10/05/06 - Hearing to resolve 2 trustee objections
    01/24/07 - Judge dismisses mortgage company objection
    09/27/07 - Confirmed at last!
    06/10/11 - Trustee confirms all payments made
    08/10/11 - DISCHARGED !

    10/02/11 - CASE CLOSED
    Countdown: 60 months paid, 0 months to go

    #2
    You know, I don't feel any kind of shame about it, but I do feel embarassed a bit over it. I don't particularly want anyone at work to find out about it, but if MBNA decides to serve me (arbitration hearing) at work, that cat will be out of the bag. ;) The particulars of my situation basically comes down to a last resort for me filing: I was left with no choice when MBNA refused to accept any payment plans whatsoever, and decided to drop the bomb.
    09/13/06: -- C13 filed with Courts
    12/04/06: -- Plan confirmed!
    Payments left: -- 38

    Comment


      #3
      Anyone have a link to the actual article? I haven't been able to find it anywhere.
      Filed Ch 7: 02Jun06.......Credit after BK:
      341: 28Jun06...............11Sep06 - Orchard Bank $300
      Discharged: 29Aug06.....15Sep06 - Hooters MC $1000
      Closed: 29Aug06...........18Sep06 - Cap One $300

      Comment


        #4
        Originally posted by cr2285
        Anyone have a link to the actual article? I haven't been able to find it anywhere.
        Here it is - http://www.creditslips.org/creditsli...on_you_th.html

        It's a post on a blog called Credit Slips.
        I am not a lawyer and this is not legal advice nor a statement of the law - only a lawyer can provide those.

        06/01/06 - Filed Ch 13
        06/28/06 - 341 Meeting
        07/18/06 - Confirmation Hearing - not confirmed, 3 objections
        10/05/06 - Hearing to resolve 2 trustee objections
        01/24/07 - Judge dismisses mortgage company objection
        09/27/07 - Confirmed at last!
        06/10/11 - Trustee confirms all payments made
        08/10/11 - DISCHARGED !

        10/02/11 - CASE CLOSED
        Countdown: 60 months paid, 0 months to go

        Comment


          #5
          The article in Sociological Focus "Managing the Stigma of Personal Bankruptcy" is only available to paying members. Bummer.
          *** THIS IS NOT LEGAL ADVICE--ONLY A LAWYER CAN PROVIDE THAT. ***

          My posts represent hours of research on and off the web, these forums, my experience, and my opinions.

          Comment


            #6
            We could have probably gone with a Chapter 7 and held out way too long, draining every resource we had. We have felt so ashamed and now that my brother knows, he has little to do with us. I have personally had 7 surgeries, my daughter one, one for my son and one hospitalization, and two hospitalizations for my husband and he is having major surgery on Tuesday. This is in fewer than 20 years. Oh and I've been in the hospital three other times for pregnancy complications and postpartum sepsis. Although I admit to some foolish spending, I don't know of many people who could have survived this and three job losses.
            Filed: 2/24/2006
            341 mtg: 4/4/2006:angel:
            Discharged: 9/25/08!!!!!:yahoo::yahoo::yahoo::yahoo::yahoo:

            Comment


              #7
              Jane,

              I cannot believe that your brother has little to do with you. Such a shame. I have read your posts about him before. So sad (for him, not you!).

              Comment


                #8
                I do feel like a complete failure about bk, but when I get really depressed: I just think about our federal government and the fine example that they are setting for our young people, NOT!!!! They print their own money, as they need to for outrageous projects, that they do not need. Hm....sounds like many an American household. My own mother said "no wonder the bankrupcy rate is so high, we have only to look at our own government".

                Comment


                  #9
                  Originally posted by debtisbad
                  I do feel like a complete failure about bk, but when I get really depressed: I just think about our federal government and the fine example that they are setting for our young people, NOT!!!! They print their own money, as they need to for outrageous projects, that they do not need. Hm....sounds like many an American household. My own mother said "no wonder the bankrupcy rate is so high, we have only to look at our own government".
                  I am sorry to hear you feel that way. You had enough knowledge to know you needed to file bankruptcy and that financially your were in trouble. I must say filing bk was one of the best decisions I could have made. All I did over the years was destroy my credit and allow others to help me destroy it but after filing bk I was able to get back on my feet and restore my dignity. Bk has taught me how to be financially responsible and I certainly can appreciate the lesson.
                  Discharged 2/27/06, closed 6/1/06

                  Comment


                    #10
                    The shame should come when you fall into the same traps that got you to BK! You should fell proud that you know when enough was enough, and took steps to make a change in your life to get a new start!
                    My credit scores:
                    Before Filing: Tr 496, Ex 496, Eq 507

                    Today: Tr 618 (+122), Ex 601 (+105), Eq 623 (+116)

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Great Poll! I would love to say that I don't feel shame over filing bankruptcy, but I have a long ways to go before that will be true.

                      My two major emotions regarding bk are relief and shame. (throw in some anxiety as well)! It is my secret from the world and have not told a soul, except my lawyer. When one feels so secretive about something, SHAME is fueling it.

                      Best Regards to you all!

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Originally posted by jane taylor
                        We could have probably gone with a Chapter 7 and held out way too long, draining every resource we had. We have felt so ashamed and now that my brother knows, he has little to do with us. I have personally had 7 surgeries, my daughter one, one for my son and one hospitalization, and two hospitalizations for my husband and he is having major surgery on Tuesday. This is in fewer than 20 years. Oh and I've been in the hospital three other times for pregnancy complications and postpartum sepsis. Although I admit to some foolish spending, I don't know of many people who could have survived this and three job losses.
                        It's awful for your brother to treat you that way.

                        Yes, I had all the misconceptions associated with BK before investigating it myself. But there are so many people who don't know or chose to ignore them. The major contributors to BK are job loss, medical issues, divorce, and death.
                        *** THIS IS NOT LEGAL ADVICE--ONLY A LAWYER CAN PROVIDE THAT. ***

                        My posts represent hours of research on and off the web, these forums, my experience, and my opinions.

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Well, I know this....I TOO now stand in the shoes of BK...
                          I was one of those people that judged others for doing so, even though I knew that's probably where I would end up...and guess what...I DID or AM~
                          I know that I was in denial about my own problem, but when it just got to literally sucking the life out of me, at that point I realized I was the in the very same position that many other people I know are in, I just was the last idiot to do something about it. When I look at how much money I have actually thrown into a debt bag that was NEVER to recover, I just feel even MORE drained, but now I am in relief at the fact that I will no longer be held up with that noose....it has been cut and I can breath again. We haven't filed yet, but we will at the start of next week..... we have made the decision to do so and are working on the papers to decide whether it is 13 or 7 ...I know it will be a bumpy ride, but I know there is now a light before me where I once saw only a black hole. I was more embarrassed a few days ago than I am at this point..the relief is so great that I don't care who knows............
                          Later guys~ I will keep you posted!
                          CAB

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Filing for chapter 7 BK was a really tough decision, but one of the best ones I've ever made. My wife lost her job, my ex took me back to court for more child support, $650 month for one child. We had just held on too long. Way over our heads and getting worse every day. I finally have CONTROL over my finances instead of the other way around. We have learned to live within our means. I've got one CC for rebuilding and panic in a dollar gets out on it. I never want to go there again!

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Look at the images we see in the media. They're not the typical bankruptcy. Instead, we've got Donald Trump declaring bankruptcy and still remaining a multimillionaire.
                              *** THIS IS NOT LEGAL ADVICE--ONLY A LAWYER CAN PROVIDE THAT. ***

                              My posts represent hours of research on and off the web, these forums, my experience, and my opinions.

                              Comment

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