Bankruptcy Fraud??

[sisterfunkhaus]

Several months ago, I took out a $16,000 healthcare loan for obesity surgery with Capital One. I had every intention of paying it. The thing is that I forgot that my HUGE student loans were coming due soon and didn't figure that out when considering if I could pay. Then, I lost $800 of income per month. So, now, we are barely making ends meet. We have no extra money and I can't afford to pay it. We aren't paying ANY credit cards including that one. I was only able to make one payment to the company.
We are filing bankruptcy in about a year. We just didn't know how over our heads we were. We have about $80,000 in cc debt including that loan. We have $80,000 in student loan denbt, which can't be written off. Our income is about $60,000 combined before taxes (except for right now, it isn't even that much but will change in the next few months.) SO, we obviously can't pay for everything.

I am afraid they (Capital One) will try to accuse us/me of fraud. Keep in mind they didn't check/verify my income, ask for tax returns or even verify my employment. They just handed over the money. All I had to do was sign a form. I made one payment, then lost a daycare child ($800 a month) which I can prove with financial records. It was very unexpected. That income will be replaced in a few months, but I am so behind on that bill, along with my other credit cards that I have no way of catching up. We are putting off filing b/c we are virtually judgement proof (we live in Texas.) We have nothing anyone can get due to exemptions and are willing to move to all cash should anyone get a judgement on our bank account.

What is the worst case senerio here? Can I go to jail for not paying them? Could it end up not being discharged in BK? What would they have to do to prove fraud??

Help!! I am so scared I am not scared about the rest of my creditors, just them. I can ignore the phone calls, etc... But I'm afraid I can get arrested or something.

[SinkingFast]

Many of us here have done the very same thing, Sister. Made purchases in good faith only to realize days, weeks, even a couple of months later that we were in your shoes.

We bought son's college books end of December/early January. Realized in February we couldn't keep up the payments.

There's a 70/90 day rule in the New BK Law.

70 days and $750 in Cash Advances. That includes Convenience Checks use.

90 days and $500 in Charges for "luxury goods and services".

If you file BK within the 70/90 day time frame, the burden of proof that you did not charge fraudulently falls on you. After the 70/90 day timeframe, the burden of proof shifts to the Creditor.

Keep in mind, that's line of credit by line of credit. Not a total of $750 or $500 to all Creditors.

[FilingOnMyOwn]

You won't be charged with fraud. Just wait out the appropriate time period.

[sisterfunkhaus]

So, if a wait a good while, I'll be safe? I know that no one can promise that, but I am really worried about a debt that large that I have only made one payment on. We actually had HUGE empty lines of credit open at that point in time, I just wanted a lower interest rate. SO, I obviously had intent to pay if I was concerned aboput the interest rate. I guess I'm just trying to find reasons to worry, kwim???
I want to put off filing for a bit. What do I do if a creditor wants to take me to court? How do I put court off and how long can I put a suit off? We don't have anything for them to get as all of our property is exempt and Texas doesn't do wage garnishment. I am hoping that will deter them from filing suits against us.

[lrprn]

So, if a wait a good while, I'll be safe? I know that no one can promise that, but I am really worried about a debt that large that I have only made one payment on. We actually had HUGE empty lines of credit open at that point in time, I just wanted a lower interest rate. SO, I obviously had intent to pay if I was concerned aboput the interest rate. I guess I'm just trying to find reasons to worry, kwim???
I want to put off filing for a bit. What do I do if a creditor wants to take me to court? How do I put court off and how long can I put a suit off? We don't have anything for them to get as all of our property is exempt and Texas doesn't do wage garnishment. I am hoping that will deter them from filing suits against us.

Sis, we do understand your anxiety - we've all had it to some degree - so don't worry. It's very hard to predict how long a creditor might wait to take you to court - most folks here have shared that they had at least a year before the judgment summons to court began to arrive. Since you are a no-asset case, that does make you a less attractive target. I'm not a Ch 7 expert, but if I'm not mistaken, don't most liens and collection judgments get wiped out by filing? Hopefully our Ch 7 experts can weigh in here.

Good luck - please keep us posted here on how your situation is going and remember during the tough times we're here to help as much as we can.

[edwards2]

I dont know about the liens and judgements but you are exactly right about a no-asset case being "less attractive" to creditors. I will add my 2 cents worth too and say we all truly know exactly how you feel..not for the same exact reason but the end result is still the same. We filed under the old BK law but we still had anxiety attacks. I am not trying to cause more stress for you at all but just be sure you can account for everything. I have heard Cap One takes no prisoners when it comes to their customers owing them money but for that matter very few, if any, creditors are happy about their customers filing BK. In your case what can they repossess for heaven's sake? However, a year is a long time to keep them at bay so if you can get a consultation with an attorney and get some legal advice it might answer some of your questions and ease your anxiety...we are all here to help if we can.

[SinkingFast]

I want to put off filing for a bit. What do I do if a creditor wants to take me to court? How do I put court off and how long can I put a suit off? We don't have anything for them to get as all of our property is exempt and Texas doesn't do wage garnishment. I am hoping that will deter them from filing suits against us.

Call around and schedule yourself several Consult appts. Generally Consults are free. You'll get to meet and greet with attnys. Get their opinion of your options. Get your attny picked out. Pay your retainer when you want. And work on getting your attny fees paid.

In the meantime, work on gathering your docs. Every attny you Consult with will give you a list of docs they'll need. Start working on gathering those. If you haven't been saving CC statements, start. Same with Bank Statements, monthly bills. Save receipts from when you shop at the grocery, dept stores, and such. Try to get a handle on how much you spend on various things each month.

That way, you're ready when you need to be. You'll have your attny hired, your docs on file with your attny, so if and when you get served with a Summons, you can file BK and stop any legal action dead in it's tracks.

[aa06a47]

The advice I give is wait about 6 months after you charged things up, plus with your decreased income you might be a chapter 7 if you wait that long. There is no real good reason to wait a year to file. It would be best to get it over with as soon as possible and get on with your life.

Be careful about giving a retainer to an attorney if it hasn't been at least 90 days since your last major purchase or at least 70 days for a cash advance. It has actually been argued and won by creditors that the day you paid your attorney was the day you decided to file (even if it is a few months later).

[razorguns]

btw: u could've saved the obesity surgery by using hoodia (dietex or desertburn.com)

it's what celebs in hollywood use. I know cuz i live here.

r

[lrprn]

btw: u could've saved the obesity surgery by using hoodia (dietex or desertburn.com)

it's what celebs in hollywood use. I know cuz i live here.

r

Here are the known facts and a caution about hoodia's use in the US as an appetite suppressant - http://altmedicine.about.com/od/popu.../hoodia1_2.htm . It's no magic bullet for weight loss.

The only sure road to healthy and sustainable weight loss is taking in fewer calories than your body burns and doing so over a long period of time, no matter what road is taken to make that happen.

[Minnymouth]

For those of you "so-quick" to take over the counter diet pills and "diet fads".......

I watched a 37 year old woman with 3 children, die in ER because of her love of Minii-thins...... Massive heart attack....

Thin may be in "but too her - IT WAS DEADLY"!!!!! She had used them for quite a while, and eventually her heart just couldn't take it any more.....

Now she has 3 homeless children who are wards of the state......

BEWARE OF SOME OF THE CONSEQUENCES.........

My thoughts.....

[razorguns]

Here are the known facts and a caution about hoodia's use in the US as an appetite suppressant - http://altmedicine.about.com/od/popu.../hoodia1_2.htm . It's no magic bullet for weight loss.

The only sure road to healthy and sustainable weight loss is taking in fewer calories than your body burns and doing so over a long period of time, no matter what road is taken to make that happen.

you can't argue with results. 5 of my personal friends lost lbs with it easily. And no, i don't get paid for this.

(hoodia allows people to easier stick to their diets - nothing more)

r

[FilingOnMyOwn]

btw: u could've saved the obesity surgery by using hoodia (dietex or desertburn.com)

it's what celebs in hollywood use. I know cuz i live here.

r

That was too funny!

[bkadv]

My personal fav for weight loss has been energy drinks. Most contain lots of vitamins and minerals. There's about 50 million different brands now, as they've taken the market by storm. Mini thins are bad, bad, bad for your health, much like the rip fuels, etc.....

[SinkingFast]

We were in SAM's one day a couple years ago and I got a sample of one of the "new" energy drinks. Monster I think it was.

I got a cheap buzz!!

I was all warm and glowy feeling like I'd had a few too many glasses of wine. Next thing I knew, I wanted to go somewhere, lay down, and go to sleep.

Definitely not the effect the manufacturers had intended.