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341 did NOT go well :(

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    341 did NOT go well :(

    I had my 341 today, and it did NOT go well. I filed Pro Se, which I guess may have been a mistake. I'm married 15 years, and am filing a non-consumer chapter 7. I exempted everything (our home, cars etc.) because they are joint marital property (tenancy by the entirety in our state). All of the debt was for business, in my name.

    The trustee seemed very nice and polite, and was asking me all of the questions he asked everyone else, then started asking about my businesses. I did not exempt my remaining business inventory, and he asked where it was etc. I told him I had it in storage, and he said he would be having an auctioneer contact me about inspecting it. I'm totally fine with that. I told him I did try to liquidate, but nobody was really interested in the stuff. I'd honestly love if they could get a few bucks for the stuff.

    However, things took a bad turn after this. He asked if I owned any real estate - I said I did. He stated the value, and asked how I arrived at that. I told him that is what it was assessed at a few years ago. He asked if there was a mortgage - I told him there was not. He then asked me about some guitars I had listed, how old they were, and how I arrived a the values. It was right around this time that he then informed me that he would be objecting to my exemptions, and that if his objections are upheld, I will have to go before a judge, and that he intends to liquidate all of my assets to pay my creditors.

    Since pretty much everything I own, aside from the inventory, is jointly owned with my wife, I don't understand how this is possible? I asked him why, but he said he could not give me any legal advice. He did say that I mixed state law and case law on my paperwork - I'm guessing he was giving me a hint there? He also seemed to be suggesting I get a lawyer. I see on my Schedule C where I cited a case for all of the jointly held assets, but that was all I could find. The other exemptions were state codes, for such things as retirement accounts etc.

    So he continued my case until January. I'm a complete nervous wreck. I have contacted a lawyer - it may be just a matter of getting the specific laws stated correctly on the Schedule C...I have no idea. In retrospect, I guess my case might have been a little too complex to try to do on my own (I was the only one there without a lawyer). I had been sued three times before I eventually filed, and actually won 2 of the 3, and was waiting to hear back on the third. Maybe I should have just continued that course.

    Is there a deadline for withdrawing my petition altogether? Like..if I wind up going before a judge..is it too late??

    #2
    Yeah, it's too late to go back. You can't dismiss ch7 I believe.
    Good luck to u though

    Comment


      #3
      In certain circumstances Tenancy by Entirety would work to protect the assets from the Trustee. However if you chose the federal exemptions then I don't think your property would be protected by the state tenancy by entirety classification. Also, check the deeds and titles. Do these specifically state "Tenancy by entirety?" This is not an automatic classification, you have to specify it.

      Comment


        #4
        I didn't choose the federal exemptions, I chose the state for this very reason - to protect our house and other assets. Also, from everything I have have read, you don't need to title things "tenancy" if you are married, it is implied. As long as things were purchased during the marriage, from joint marital funds. I did contact a lawyer and he's looking over my case now. The Trustee did seem a little annoyed that I didn't have a lawyer present. He mentioned me mixing state and case law, then said I needed to talk to my lawyer about it, so I'm hoping it was his way of telling me to get a lawyer, straighten out my petition, and come back next month. If he's planning on objecting to my exemptions, but continued this till next month, I'm hoping that will allow me to fix what needs to be fixed? I'm an absolute basket case right now..it's like it was at the very beginning again. Shaking..can't eat..it sucks.

        Comment


          #5
          Going to a lawyer was the right thing to do, given the remarks from the trustee. If the lawyer acts quickly and you don't delay him/her then you should be able to submit an amended petition which supersedes your old one and becomes the basis of your BK going forward. At that point it will be what it will be regrading exemptions etc. Have a long discussion with the lawyer on what it will mean to you and your wife.
          Lawyer - $3000
          Filing fee - $299
          Fresh Start - Priceless

          Comment


            #6
            Thanks jst4f - believe me, ANY words of encouragement right now are quite welcome! I actually did meet with a lawyer back when this all first started, and I told him I was intending to use the state exemptions because of the house, and he concurred, told me we would be fine. I'm really hoping this guy is just trying to give me a bit of a hard time, because I can't logically see them taking a house half-owned by my wife, who is not party to my debt at all?

            Comment


              #7
              Logic has little to do with it and the law has everything to do with it. That is why I would not go pro se but used a lawyer. You had more guts than I did and now it is time to re-think your strategy and try again. A competent lawyer will get you the best possible outcome for your situation. Having filed on your own should be an advantage when working with the lawyer as you know more than most people. Hang in there and in 90 days it will be all over and you will have your fresh start.

              If things do go bad for you when planning with your lawyer (like you might lose the house) you could try for BK13 to save assets. I prefer BK7 but it might have to be option for you. Just a thought.
              Lawyer - $3000
              Filing fee - $299
              Fresh Start - Priceless

              Comment


                #8
                I would certainly concur with enlisting an attorney immediately! This is serious business and you have serious "juicy" assets that are within the Trustee's reach. Never "assume" anything in the law. The law is very specific and when you have anything that you own free and clear -- especially real property -- you should never-ever file a Bankruptcy case pro se. You have to understand the intricacies of bankruptcy law and the interplay with underlying State non-bankruptcy law.

                Tenancy by the entireties, or TBE, is not so simple in most States. It is not even automatic in all States. To be safe, one should always title stuff as TBE if that is what you actually want! I would say that the Trustee is taking advantage of your pro se status, but is also challenging the title on the properties. Pennsylvania law does lean towards the theory that real property acquired by a married couple is TBE by default.

                At this point, it is what it is. Hopefully your new attorney will help make any necessary corrections to your exemptions claimed on your Schedules. (No, you don't get to "mix" the two together claiming some things under Federal and some things under State.) It may just be that the Trustee is annoyed. I can't tell what's in the Trustee's mind, but they smell blood in the water and they are not circling.
                Chapter 7 (No Asset/Non-Consumer) Filed (Pro Se) 7/08 (converted from Chapter 13 - 2/10)
                Status: (Auto) Discharged and Closed! 5/10
                Visit My BKForum Blog: justbroke's Blog

                Any advice provided is not legal advice, but simply the musings of a fellow bankrupt.

                Comment


                  #9
                  Thanks justbroke - I completely agree - most likely should have retained a lawyer from the get go, but didn't really get a warm and fuzzy feeling from the ones I did meet, and also had a friend that had a very difficult time because their lawyer messed up on filing some papers and almost cost them their discharge. I guess right now, best case scenario is that it can be modified and fixed - worst case (hopefully) is I have to convert to a 13 and go from there. I think was showing like $54 available a month, which probably wouldn't fly in a 13, due to the total amount owed. I'll see what an attorney has to say, and will definitely have one by my side next month when I go back!

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Conversion to a Chapter 13 is always an option. At least in Florida, we can confirm $0 plans quite easily. I do not know how sensitive they are in Philadelphia, especially if you aren't paying anything through the Trustee. (The Trustee likes to make money and in a Chapter 13, they only make money if you are paying things through the Plan and through the Trustee.)

                    When you return with the attorney and updated Schedules, you may find the Trustee more... accommodating. I would really hate to see anyone, especially we pro se and pro-se-non-consumer filers have any problems with assets! You are now finding that some Trustees are ambitious and some of them like to litigate!
                    Chapter 7 (No Asset/Non-Consumer) Filed (Pro Se) 7/08 (converted from Chapter 13 - 2/10)
                    Status: (Auto) Discharged and Closed! 5/10
                    Visit My BKForum Blog: justbroke's Blog

                    Any advice provided is not legal advice, but simply the musings of a fellow bankrupt.

                    Comment

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