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Chapter 13 Property Tax

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  • Chapter 13 Property Tax

    we wrote the payback on the property taxes into my Chapter 13 plan. This week I received a letter asking me to contact the county and make arrangements to pay the past due amount or face a tax foreclosure? No the amount delinquent is $3500 dollars and I have payed the taxes according to my confirmed plan.

    The county never ever filed the claim. My attorney contacted them several times regarding the matter and was given several excuses as to their delay, which is now way past due for them to file.

    I thought i was protected from from these kinds of actions while in Chapter 13? They tried tell my attorney the delinquency is now $5000, but as I told the attorney it is $5000 because the second half isn’t due yet until July. When that is paid, the delinquency is $3500, exactly the same as what we submitted at filing. I am essentially current on taxes.

    It really seems like the county is just playing games in violation of the stay.

    I just want want to get through this and pay all the debts I have to pay, which this is one. Which is included if they had filed their claim! Plus is does upset me that they would threaten a tax foreclosure over one year of back taxes!

  • #2
    Some municipal or governmental entities don't really know much about the automatic stay and Chapter 13s. I had an issue with personal property tax where they kept billing me for pre-petition charges despite knowing that they didn't file a claim. It took some time to find the right person and convince them of the correct procedure!

    Most tax foreclosures are a little complex. What typically happens, at least in "advanced" property tax locales such as Florida, is that tax certificates are sold first (to cover the actual taxes). These investors, that buy the tax certificates, can then redeem them after 2 years. I do know that in some New England States, you can actually buy a property just for the past-due taxes with strange redemption rights.

    As I did, have your attorney draft a letter to them with big capital letters "VIOLATION OF THE AUTOMATIC STAY" and inform them that continuing to attempt to collect a pre-petition debt without relief from stay is a violation and that they are subject to sanctions.
    Chapter 7 (No Asset/Non-Consumer) Filed (Pro Se) 7/08 (converted from Chapter 13 - 2/10)
    Status: (Auto) Discharged and Closed! 5/10
    Visit My BKForum Blog: justbroke's Blog


    I am not an attorney. Any advice provided is not legal advice.

    Comment


    • #3
      Unless you are a serial filer, the automatic stay should protect you from foreclosure unless the county files a motion for relief from automatic stay. Since property taxes are secured debts, they can get relief if the plan does not provide payment to them. If the plan does not include the tax because the county did not file a claim, ask your attorney to file a claim for them. The bankruptcy code allows a debtor to file a claim on behalf of a creditor if the creditor fails to do so by the deadline.
      LadyInTheRed is in the black!
      Filed Chap 13 April 2010. Discharged May 2015.
      $143,000 in debt discharged for $36,500, including attorneys fees. Money well spent!

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by LadyInTheRed View Post
        The bankruptcy code allows a debtor to file a claim on behalf of a creditor if the creditor fails to do so by the deadline.
        I had to do exactly that in my Chapter 13.

        Chapter 7 (No Asset/Non-Consumer) Filed (Pro Se) 7/08 (converted from Chapter 13 - 2/10)
        Status: (Auto) Discharged and Closed! 5/10
        Visit My BKForum Blog: justbroke's Blog


        I am not an attorney. Any advice provided is not legal advice.

        Comment


        • despritfreya
          despritfreya commented
          Editing a comment
          The problem with this is that the ability to file such a claim only lasts for 30 days past the claims bar date. My guess is that ship has sailed. OP needs to discuss this with the attny. Yes, the stay protects OP but there is a lien on the property and, depending upon what state he/she resides in, the interest accruing on the unpaid amount could be very high. In AZ it is 16%.

          Des

      • #5
        So,....I might as well die. I screwed things up so much...that even BK can't help except to making me homeless much faster.

        I have spent the last several days seeking 'rent' that I can afford. Really? I am this ****ed up (sorry it is how i feel right now) that I can't even afford rent? It is cheapest for me to stay in my home! Seriously...really I am living in my home far below what I'd ever pay in rent ....I can't pay $400 per month...my god ....I said it earlier in another thread...I have failed.

        I will kill myself first, before ever being homeless.

        The county said they would file...then the huge disruption at the county for bad activities...and now I'm screwed over because of them? Because my attorney took a good faith promise? Why did they ****ing lie? why not just come forward and say no to participating in the BK? Don't I have a right to know ?

        Comment


        • #6
          Originally posted by justbroke View Post
          I had to do exactly that in my Chapter 13.
          So did I when the local tax collecting firm did not file a claim on my local income tax.
          Filed Ch 13 Fall 2013, 60 month plan

          Comment


          • #7
            Originally posted by Attie View Post
            So,....I might as well die. I screwed things up so much...that even BK can't help except to making me homeless much faster.

            I have spent the last several days seeking 'rent' that I can afford. Really? I am this ****ed up (sorry it is how i feel right now) that I can't even afford rent? It is cheapest for me to stay in my home! Seriously...really I am living in my home far below what I'd ever pay in rent ....I can't pay $400 per month...my god ....I said it earlier in another thread...I have failed.

            I will kill myself first, before ever being homeless.

            The county said they would file...then the huge disruption at the county for bad activities...and now I'm screwed over because of them? Because my attorney took a good faith promise? Why did they ****ing lie? why not just come forward and say no to participating in the BK? Don't I have a right to know ?
            There is no need for drastic measures. I really don't think the situation is as hopeless as you think. It sounds like the letter you received from the county is an early step in the collection process. Yes, it's a scary threatening letter. It is meant to encourage you to pay because they would rather have the tax than have to foreclose.

            Your profile says you are in Ohio. The county has a choice of foreclosing or selling the tax lien. If they foreclose, they have to go to court. If they are in violation of the automatic stay, then they aren't going to get a foreclosure order without getting the stay lifted. If they sell the lien, then you have a year to pay the tax before the new owner of the lien can foreclosure. Do you know what is the common practice in your county? Either way, you have some time to deal with this. You have the protection of Chap 13. It is a stronger protection than you think. You are in a 3 year plan. I know you don't want to extend it, but that is a better option than losing your home. You have some room to work with this debt and the income tax debt you posted about in the other thread. Have you talked to your attorney since you started this thread Thursday evening? If not, please stop beating yourself up and looking for rentals and call him. This can likely be fixed!
            LadyInTheRed is in the black!
            Filed Chap 13 April 2010. Discharged May 2015.
            $143,000 in debt discharged for $36,500, including attorneys fees. Money well spent!

            Comment


            • Attie
              Attie commented
              Editing a comment
              Can they sell the lien even if i am in chapter 13? https://treasurer.cuyahogacounty.us/...rtificate.aspx

              My % of payback is only 1%, everything I have been paying the trustee was supposed to go to help clean this all up! Now it's not even in the case because they failed to file? And lied to my attorney? Seriously upset. I am up again tonight having an anxiety attack, shaking so badly, and frantic.

          • #8
            Nothing happens overnight with the government. Give the mess to your lawyer and let them have the anxiety attack. That’s why you hired them.

            If your lawyer doesn’t have an answer to your call by noon tomorrow, call them and ask them to escalate.

            Sometimes the lawyer isn’t as involved as you want them to be. Perhaps try contacting the assessor’s office and working your way up the chain. Or calling your local news team’s “on your side” number and seeing if a tv camera in the head honcho’s face can solve the problem.

            If it is a topic worthy of dying on the sword about, why not channel that negative energy into offices that can solve the problem first? Honestly, you don’t have to set yourself on fire in their office, a State Congressman or Senator, or your state’s politicians can light the fire UNDER the folks needing to solve the problem.

            Comment

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