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2 1/2 years and still not confirmed
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The judge gets the last word and would not issue an order before the trustee's deadline to object.
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So I just checked PACER and saw that the BK Judge approved the Motion to incur debt. Now, is this the final word or do I have to wait for the trustee to put her two cents in? I have emailed my Attorney but he wont get back to me right away.
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Originally posted by Redsox View PostAs I am sure you are aware, DK does everything by the book. She would not budge on anything! Our DMI is based on form 22C. I presented my attorney with the Supreme Courts decision that Chapter 13's should be a forward looking process, and dynamic. My attorney seemed indifferent about it.
On the other hand, since your initial post, two 9th Circuit appellate level cases have come out and (limiting the holding in Lanning to the facts of that case) both allude to the need to use form 22C in calculating what unsecured creditors must get regardless of a debtor's ability to pay. Of course, the requirement to devote DMI only arises if a creditor or the Trustee objects. I suspect the other 2 Trustees will continue to be realistic as neither wants to be out of a job (too many failed cases means no $$ to run their offices) but I also suspect creditors will, once again, start objecting to Plans that do not pay unsecured creditors what form 22C says they are entitled to receive. Only time will tell.
Des.
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Flowerchild: all the money we have paid has been held in escrow in essence. Our plan is for 5 years. And yes thank god we dont live in Michigan. The money we paid has been sitting in the trustees account.
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Originally posted by Redsox View PostJust wanted to update everyone on my situation. We are finally Confirmed as of 9/11/12 after 2 plus years!! Our payments jumped to 1600/mo from 1250 but we just have to deal with it. We are now dealing with purchasing a car, as our lease is now up. My attorney has just filed a motion to incur debt. Does anyone have experience with filing this motion in AZ with Trustee DK? Is it going to be another horror show, like our confirmation? I hope it isn't.
Now how long is your plan for? And what happened to all of the monies you've paid for the past 2 years? Since you are not a Michigander, surely those monies and the time has to be accounted for in your confirmed plan, right?
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As I am sure you are aware, DK does everything by the book. She would not budge on anything! Our DMI is based on form 22C. I presented my attorney with the Supreme Courts decision that Chapter 13's should be a forward looking process, and dynamic. My attorney seemed indifferent about it. So, we will see if the Motion to incur debt will be as difficult as Confirmation. We are returning a BMW with a 531/mo lease and buying a 2 y/o Minivan in which the payment will be substantially less. Unless the rate is 25%
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Originally posted by Redsox View PostDoes anyone have experience with filing this motion in AZ with Trustee DK? Is it going to be another horror show, like our confirmation? I hope it isn't.
How did you, your attny and the Trustee come up with the Plan payment? Did she demand payment of "disposable income" as shown in form 22C or did she look at your "real" income and reasonable expenses? Just curious.
Des.
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Just wanted to update everyone on my situation. We are finally Confirmed as of 9/11/12 after 2 plus years!! Our payments jumped to 1600/mo from 1250 but we just have to deal with it. We are now dealing with purchasing a car, as our lease is now up. My attorney has just filed a motion to incur debt. Does anyone have experience with filing this motion in AZ with Trustee DK? Is it going to be another horror show, like our confirmation? I hope it isn't.
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Originally posted by Redsox View PostSo when the Judge told you to upload the Order Confiriming without her signature, does that mean he (Judge) would sign the order without the Trustee's Signature?
And, yes, it is the real budget that matters. We do not look at 22C if it is not representative of the real situation. This all goes to the USSC decision of Lanning which your attorney should be familiar with. (Lanning dealt with income, not expenses, but its reasoning can be applied to the expense side of the equation.)
Des.
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despritfreya: Thank you for your input. So, what I can gleen from your last paragraph is that the Judge will look more at the Schedule I and J? So when the Judge told you to upload the Order Confiriming without her signature, does that mean he (Judge) would sign the order without the Trustee's Signature? This is so frustrating...2 and 1/2 years and still going back and forth with the trustee. I am not sure what kind of Metrics she is using.
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Surely there is some gutsy enterprising attorney/reporter/muckraker who wants to take that on. It's just WRONG. Like the Washington carveouts, the Fl middle district nonsense, and the non-existent NJ exemptions. (yes, I know, we can use Federal, but even so....makes you scratch your head)
Might be fun/interesting to make a list of each state's peccadilloes.
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Originally posted by keepsmiling View PostSo... what happens to all the money paid before you are confirmed? I think you Michiganders need to rise up and revolt on this. It's a bizarre interpretation of the code, no?
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I apologize. This is the first I have seen of this thread.
The Non-consumer Bankruptcy wasn't available to us because. . . The credit cards I used for my business were under my name and not the business. .
We signed personal guarantees on an SBA loan, Lease, and our Suppliers, but not one of them came after us.
Now, adding the cc and the personal guarantees are you a “non-consumer” case? If “yes” go back to your attny, amend the Petition to show that debts are mostly business. Once you have done this, and do not have any assets that you might lose (if you care about them) if you want to convert then convert.
Now, as to your Trustee, she is a problem. Your real time numbers (Schedule I&J) are what matters in determining how much you pay to your creditors, not that stupid Form 22C. Your Trustee will require 22C to be correctly done and that covers the 6 months prior to filing. It would not include the new baby. However, I&J DOES cover your current/anticipated income and necessary expenses. If you are wage earners determining your income is easy. Your expenses need to be within reason. If this current go-around does not work take it to the Judge. I can tell you that I recently had an issue with your Trustee, set a hearing and made her look like a fool. The Judge (same one you have) told me to upload the Order Confirming without her signature.
Des.
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So to update our Horror Show Chapter 13...Our attorney filed the amended DMI and payments yesterday and now we are waiting for the Trustee to accept it or object. If she objects how do we schedule a hearing with the Judge? What will happen at the hearing? Any help is appreciated.
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2.5 years and still not confirmed?! I'd have had my lawyer in the corner asking WTH is up and what is the reason he/she cannot get the trustee to agree to payments. As HHM stated - this should've been to the judge waayyyy before this point.
Des should know how things work given he's in AZ...
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