Announcement

Collapse

Forum Rules (Everyone Must Read!!!) (updated: 04/28/2015)

Welcome to the Bankruptcy Forum. Bankruptcy (BK) Forum is known as BKForum.com and will be referred to as BKF hereinafter. In order to ensure a long term success of our vibrant community, we have established certain rules and guidelines to which everyone must adhere to. Please take your time to carefully read our rules, before you start to participate in the community.

Things you agree to do:
BKFORUM.com (BKF) users agree to use the search function before starting a new thread. This prevents duplicate discussions and allows for better organized topics.

All BKF users agree to read the sticky posts which may be available at the top of a forum page. These Sticky posts often contain valuable information. They may also outline more rules and guidelines specific for that particular forum, stickies are put in place by that forums moderator(s) or admin(s).

Things you agree not to do:

All BKF users agree not to call people names or write a post simply to make a personal attack, or get a negative reaction; this behavior is not allowed on our forum. The use of derogatory language aimed at anyone will be severely dealt with. There is no need to agree with each other, or to even like each other. However, by signing onto BKForum.com you agree to treat each member and guest with the respect they deserve. No threats or personal attacks will be allowed.

All BKF users agree not to discuss, engage, or encourage any behavior or activity which violates the law. Discussion of drugs, violence, murder, theft, vandalism, fraud or any other issue which could be used to help individuals break the law is strictly forbidden.

All BKF users agree not to "bump" old threads, unless there is a specific benefit to the community by doing so. But in most cases, please don't post in very old threads, instead start new threads.

All BKF users agree not to attempt/use another members account. It is against BKF rules to use any account other than your own. Impersonating another member will result in an immediate ban. It is also against the rules to open more than one account in your own name without permission from a moderator or administrator. If you have been banned for any reason, it is against the rules to open another account. If you were banned temporarily and you are caught using another account you will be banned permanently. Choosing a moniker which is similar in either sound or spelling as a moderator or administrator is strictly forbidden.

All BKF users agree not to private message any moderator, admin, or other member with questions related to their personal circumstances (Questions about the forum or issues with the forum are ok). This forum only works when members share their experience and insights with everyone.

Things you agree not to post:
All BKF users agree not to post any derogatory/racist/or sexist remarks. This includes attachments, links and all information contained within posts, signatures, and avatars, failure to comply with this rule will result in a permanent ban.

All BKF users agree not to post any copyrighted or trademarked information without the express written permission of the owner(s) / proper citation of source.

All BKF users agree not to post any real names, addresses, telephone numbers, email addresses, social security numbers, or any other personal details (their own or other people's).

All BKF users agree not to post links, pictures, attachments, videos, or the like of pornographic content, objectionable material or extreme violence, whether cartoon or real.

All BKF users agree not to use BKF for advertising purposes without a written contract between yourself/company/agent and the administration of BKF. Blatant advertising will result in a ban.

All BKF users agree not to spam the forums. Spam includes but is not limited to posting erroneous, non-relevant-useless, off-topic, or meaningless posts. Spam may also include posts which contain no text, or large areas of blank space between lines. Simply posting emoticons without text is considered spam. BKF is the largest bankruptcy message board and all the content is intended to help other users. Please help us improve the quality of our forum by making sure that your posts are well-worded, spell checked, grammatically correct and syntaxed.

Regarding actions of moderators and administrators:

The forum is no place to air out your opinion or be judgmental of our staff and its capabilities.

All BKF users agree not to abuse or mistreat moderators or administrators. It is against BKF rules to post any information regarding bans or any other action taken by a member of the moderating or administrative team. If you wish to discuss bans or warnings please do so via PM. To place a complaint against a moderator, send a PM to a super moderator. All Moderators are equal, any decision made by a moderator must be adhered to. If a moderator tells you something you do not like, do not go to another moderator looking for a different answer. If you are caught doing this you will be banned. The moderators work as a team and respect the decisions made by their peers and will help enforce them unless an administrator tells them differently.
If you have an issue with how the forum is run, then notify one of our administrator and we will look into the situation. We have in the past and still do appreciate any input that you offer this forum. But critical input and/or judgmental postings towards the staff will result in you getting banned.


Should you find a thread offensive or out of line, then notify a Mod in a PM so they can evaluate the situation and do the action deemed necessary.

All moderators do have active "other" lives outside of the forum and help moderate this forum in their spare time throughout the days and weeks.

If you have a problem with a member or Mod follow the proper channels of reporting it.

BKF reserves the right to delete any posts which contain anti-BKF comments or discussion. Any bashing of moderators or administrators, or any of their discussion or actions will also be deleted, and the responsible posting party(s) will be banned. Any public anti-BKF advertising, communication, or posts on another forum will result in permanent bans as well.

All warnings and bans are decided by individual moderators and administrators. Warnings are preferable to bans however, for serious offenses and repeat abusers bans will go into effect. The length of the bans can vary from several hours to permanent.

All messages posted or sent including through PM are the property of BKforum.com.

All BKF users agree not to advertiser on the forum (Niether by posting, private messaging or using your signature). If you are a company/attorney/legal adviser wishing to advertise on the site or sell a product, you must contact the head administrator and inquire about our advertising packages.

All bankruptcy related opinions expressed on BKForum.com are those of their authors and not necessarily of BKF, its staff or representatives.

You agree not to copy any material/post/content from BKF without written permission from our head administrator .

By posting on this forum you agree to these terms and conditions, including any punishment deemed appropriate by moderators or administrators in the event of an offense.

Administrators/Moderators can change these rules at any time without prior notice.
See more
See less

A couple of questions...............

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • A couple of questions...............

    My wife and I are over are heads in CC and revolving debt. Our only option to get out from under it is a Chapter 7. We filed in December of 2009 with a discharge. Just got too deep with the CC again. I think we can file again in Dec 2017, that's 8 years. We have been borrowing money from her 401K just to make the CC payments and mortgage and everything else. We lease a car and that's one of the questions. Should we re affirm the lease with Lexus ? Should we stop making payments to the CC companies now ? We make minimum payments and the principle goes nowhere of course. We are being sued for hospital bills. Is a judgement discharged ? Will the trustee or judge be extra vigilant since we are going to file just as soon as we can ? The whole process makes me nervous as heck. I know these are questions for an attorney but I was hoping someone could chime in to help us.
    Thanks in advance .


  • #2
    I believe you must wait 8 years from the discharge date, but I could be mistaken. You are probably better off waiting anyways, in order to see if you can "make it work" on your current income without incurring more debt. In other words, now that you're planning to declare bankruptcy, you should stop paying all your credit cards, medical bills, and any other unsecured debts. It's just money down the toilet at this point. You should also stop paying any secured debts for things which you don't want to keep. And of course, STOP taking money out of your retirement accounts--that money is your future, and it is off limits to creditors, and even to the bankruptcy trustee.

    With regard to your car, you do not "reaffirm" a lease--you assume a lease. If you do nothing, then the lease is rejected by default, however the finance company is probably going to let you keep the car as long as the lease payments are made. The main benefit of NOT assuming the lease is that any end-of-lease charges for excess miles or excess wear/damage will be uncollectible. That being said, depending on how much your monthly lease payments are, you may be better off to stop paying, surrender the car, and buy an older used car for cash. Craigslist is full of used cars in good running condition for $1500-2500, and the monthly upkeep on an old car is way, way less than the monthly loan/lease payments on a new(er) car.

    With regard to the lawsuits for medical bills, you don't say if you own a house. No real estate? Then don't worry; the judgment will be discharged with little effort. If you do own a house, and it has equity, then you need to determine if your state's homestead exemption will allow you to exempt all of the equity, in which case you can file a motion to avoid the judgment lien in your bankruptcy. If not, then you need to respond to the lawsuit, and attempt to drag it out, so that the judgment is delayed until you can file for Chapter 7 again.

    Comment


    • #3
      I don't think it matters in the overarching issue here, but multiple filings are measured from filing date to filing date. There are different rules based on the Chapter under which the original was filed, as well as if there was a discharge and, for Chapter 13s, whether you paid 70% or more to the unsecured creditors.

      I don't think the Trustee or judge will care so long as you're filing in good faith. The thing with bankruptcy is that once someone does it for the first time, the second time becomes easier to contemplate. The U.S. Courts performed some research and found that repeat filing are actually increasing (in their 2013 report). Some 33% of Chapter 13 filers were repeat filers!

      A good reference for those that don't like the complexity of the actual U.S. Code regarding repeat filings, can be found at Nolo: https://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclope...ile-again.html
      Chapter 7 (No Asset/Non-Consumer) Filed (Pro Se) 7/08 (converted from Chapter 13 - 2/10)
      Status: (Auto) Discharged and Closed! 5/10
      Visit My BKForum Blog: justbroke's Blog


      I am not an attorney. Any advice provided is not legal advice.

      Comment


      • #4
        We were at the courthouse for such a brief time... I think we only sat through 3-4 people ahead of us, and 2 of them were repeat filers. So that statistic does not surprise me... I'd say they see it all the time.

        Comment


        • #5
          I did some research and there are conflicting ideas about when we can file again. Most things I read say you can file 8 years from the date you filed the last Chapter 7, not the discharge date. I would like to know if the CC companies obtain a judgement is that judgement a dischargeable debt ? The hospital that is suing me employs my wife so I don't know if it will cause problems or not.
          I have been making minimum payments for a couple of years. That is money thrown away. I have tried to get them to lower the interest but they only moved it from 25% down to 19%. Will the trustee require that we reject the lease ? After all, we don't even own the vehicle. We don't have any cash laying around to purchase another car and the one old car that I drive has 265K miles on it. Any thoughts on any of this? I really really appreciate the responses. I have already learned so much from this forum.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by overextend View Post
            I did some research and there are conflicting ideas about when we can file again. Most things I read say you can file 8 years from the date you filed the last Chapter 7, not the discharge date.
            It's filing date to filing date. For Chapter 7 cases, it's fond in 11 USC 727 (the discharge chapter) and reads that you can't receive a Chapter 7 discharge "in a case commenced within 8 years before the date of the filing of the petition" (commenced means filing date of the prior case). (11 USC 727 (a)(8)). I don't know why there is so much confusion on this, but I do agree that there is disagreement. The Nolo site is accurate and reading the code is very clear about when you can file. The problem is that it's buried in each "chapter" of bankruptcy. For example, to find out times that you can file a Chapter 7, you have to look at 11 USC 1328(f) (the discharge chapter for Chapter 13s).

            Originally posted by overextend View Post
            I would like to know if the CC companies obtain a judgement is that judgement a dischargeable debt ?
            If there is a cause of action and the CC company is successful they can always obtain a judgement on a "dischargeable" debt. That is, so long as they commenced and completed their lawsuit and had the judgement entered, prior to the filing of the petition. In other words... first to the courthouse steps wins (with the caveat that the judgment can be discharged in the subsequent bankruptcy).

            Originally posted by overextend View Post
            The hospital that is suing me employs my wife so I don't know if it will cause problems or not.I have been making minimum payments for a couple of years. That is money thrown away. I have tried to get them to lower the interest but they only moved it from 25% down to 19%.
            I don't have any answer, but hope for the best.

            Originally posted by overextend View Post
            Will the trustee require that we reject the lease ? After all, we don't even own the vehicle. We don't have any cash laying around to purchase another car and the one old car that I drive has 265K miles on it. Any thoughts on any of this? I really really appreciate the responses. I have already learned so much from this forum.
            Dealing with leases can get complex, but for most cases it is not complex. (I say it can get complex because the Trustee can take on leases, assume them, on behalf of the bankruptcy estate. It's highly unlikely in your case.). It would be up to you to accept or reject the lease because I'm sure the Trustee wants nothing to do with a vehicle lease.

            In summary, I don't see any issue with anything. Everything you listed is dischargeable.


            Chapter 7 (No Asset/Non-Consumer) Filed (Pro Se) 7/08 (converted from Chapter 13 - 2/10)
            Status: (Auto) Discharged and Closed! 5/10
            Visit My BKForum Blog: justbroke's Blog


            I am not an attorney. Any advice provided is not legal advice.

            Comment


            • #7
              I tried the means test at legalconsumer and we make more than the average in our county. So, if you don't pass the means test, you cannot file for chapter 7? All of this credit card debt isn't taken under consideration at all ? I am getting worried.

              Comment


              • #8
                Being over-the-median is not a yes/no decision on passing the means test, filing for Chapter 7, or receiving a Chapter 7 discharge. It's just one test that you can "overcome" the presumption that you have the means to fund a Chapter 13. Credit card debt isn't taken into consideration because it will be discharged.

                If you own a home and a couple of cars and are only marginally over the median, you can likely still pass the presumption of abuse. This is where an attorney can help craft the correct allowable expenses so that you do not have enough to fund a Chapter 13.
                Chapter 7 (No Asset/Non-Consumer) Filed (Pro Se) 7/08 (converted from Chapter 13 - 2/10)
                Status: (Auto) Discharged and Closed! 5/10
                Visit My BKForum Blog: justbroke's Blog


                I am not an attorney. Any advice provided is not legal advice.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Can anyone tell me how many months of bank statements that the trustee will ask for? Can they go back further than 6 months ? Do I sign anything giving them access to my banking history ?

                  Thanks in advance.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    It varies by trustee. They can go as far back as they want. They might not ask for any. Some ask for only the month in which you file. You do not have to give the trustee direct access to your accounts, but you do have to provide whatever they ask for.
                    LadyInTheRed is in the black!
                    Filed Chap 13 April 2010. Discharged May 2015.
                    $143,000 in debt discharged for $36,500, including attorneys fees. Money well spent!

                    Comment

                    Unconfigured Ad Widget

                    Collapse
                    Working...
                    X