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Alternatives to Bankruptcy?

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  • Alternatives to Bankruptcy?

    OK. So I can't do bankruptcy. I am not wealthy enough for a fee waiver, yet too poor to pay. And the the insane 341 Meeting of the Creditors is absolutely impossible to go to. What else can I file that acts like a bankruptcy? Thank you.

  • #2
    You need to share more information about your situation. What is it that you hoped to accomplish with bankruptcy? If you have the low income you say you have in your other thread and you have no assets, just stop paying your creditors. You don't have anything they can get.

    What is your and your spouse's gross income and what is the source of income? What kind and how much debt to you have?
    LadyInTheRed is in the black!
    Filed Chap 13 April 2010. Discharged May 2015.
    $143,000 in debt discharged for $36,500, including attorneys fees. Money well spent!

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by LadyInTheRed View Post
      You need to share more information about your situation. What is it that you hoped to accomplish with bankruptcy? If you have the low income you say you have in your other thread and you have no assets, just stop paying your creditors. You don't have anything they can get.

      What is your and your spouse's gross income and what is the source of income? What kind and how much debt to you have?
      I was hoping bankruptcy can discharge my debt. Is that not what the benefit is for? You can't just "stop paying". If that were the case, I would do that. How do I stop? What other options are there?

      Nothing they can get? How about my money? And my right to travel? Both of those are important to me.

      Our gross income is $300 a month in Social Security. The primary debt that is of concern is Social Security over-payments, of no fault of my own(legal designation), and Department of State via Department of Treasury for Repatriation for our rescue from terrorism abroad.

      Comment


      • #4
        Social security income is generally exempt from debt collection, but that may be different for SS overpayments. Does the government reduce your SS payments to collect on the debt? If so, have you asked them not to or applied for a waiver of repayment? Here is info on how to do that https://www.ssa.gov/pubs/EN-05-10098.pdf. According to that document, if the over payment was not your fault and paying it back is a hardship, you can apply to have the repayment waived.

        How are the repatriation payments being collected? Can you stop the collection by changing banks? Have you informed the Department of State that repayment is a financial hardship?

        Have you consulted with a bankruptcy attorney? There are laws that protect a certain amount of money from collection by creditors. I am not sure how they apply to SS income or the repatriation debt.

        Your right to travel is not hindered by debt, assuming you can pay to travel. I wouldn't think that the Department of State has a right to keep you from traveling because you owe them money.

        If you can't manage to get to a 341 meeting, how do you manage other travel?
        LadyInTheRed is in the black!
        Filed Chap 13 April 2010. Discharged May 2015.
        $143,000 in debt discharged for $36,500, including attorneys fees. Money well spent!

        Comment


        • #5
          My previous post regarding judgement proof doesn't apply to Social Security wanting their money back, see Lady in Red above for the waiver information. Applying for that and with calm (as possible) conversation with whomever is handling your case, they may waive collection while your waiver is processing.

          Have you looked into Supplemental Security Income? Welfare and WIC for the infant and parents? Independent, based on themselves, Social Security Disability for the disabled person in the household? The others in the household, if children, see WIC, if adults, they can apply for assistance on their own to get the household gross income up. Otherwise, try local Charities, Churches, Gofundme and the local News. Channel x on your side, could help with all of the above or point you further.

          I too have lived in places, in the US, where it took Mom and kids four hours to sled into town to get our mail and ask the Post Office Clerk to please let the power and phone companies know up in our holler they'd been out for two months. The wonderful clerk gave us some firewood so we wouldn't have to dig coal again that night for heat.

          Comment


          • #6
            LadyInTheRed

            OP has been informed on other forums that the repatriation loan (just like SS over payment) is not a priority claim and is dischargeable if there was no fraud (523(a) issues). I suspect, but am not sure, that there is a garnishment of the SS. The garnishment would stop once the bk is filed assuming OP contacted the US Department of Treasury (this Department is currently attempting to collect from OP).

            The problem is that from OP's prior posts on other forums, it appears that OP has used numerous SS numbers relative to obtaining the loan. Since he/she is either unable or unwilling to give more details there is no way to really know if there is a potential fraud issue or if there is a deeper back-story to the situation.

            Des.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by LadyInTheRed View Post
              Social security income is generally exempt from debt collection, but that may be different for SS overpayments. Does the government reduce your SS payments to collect on the debt? If so, have you asked them not to or applied for a waiver of repayment? Here is info on how to do that https://www.ssa.gov/pubs/EN-05-10098.pdf. According to that document, if the over payment was not your fault and paying it back is a hardship, you can apply to have the repayment waived.

              How are the repatriation payments being collected? Can you stop the collection by changing banks? Have you informed the Department of State that repayment is a financial hardship?

              Have you consulted with a bankruptcy attorney? There are laws that protect a certain amount of money from collection by creditors. I am not sure how they apply to SS income or the repatriation debt.

              Your right to travel is not hindered by debt, assuming you can pay to travel. I wouldn't think that the Department of State has a right to keep you from traveling because you owe them money.

              If you can't manage to get to a 341 meeting, how do you manage other travel?
              The SSA has reduced my payments from something like $420 to $301. The over-payment was not my fault. So I am good there. But you have 30 days to file the appeal...and no one told me! So doing so is impossible now. I have tried many times since. I have had the payments reduced 3 times. Now they are at their bottom figure.

              With the repatriation loan, it is the Treasury that is collecting. And they have pretty much ZERO customer service! They won't even give me proof I owe them, or a statement of what it is for. It is 3% interest. In 2 years it has gone from $10,000 to $16,000! Math is not my strong point, but how is that possible? I have gone online to calculate it, with websites that calculate regular loans, and it should not be that high. But you call them and they say they can only tell you the amount, and take your credit card number. I would think it was a scam, but I am the one calling them on their legit line.

              I have sent several letters, explaining my situation, and providing proof of income and so on. They will never get their money from me. Would if I could. And I learned my lesson! I will never ask for help again from them. Promise. You want to hear a crazy story about it, just ask.

              They also do not have a minimum payment plan that suits our income. I tried to make a payment plan with them, well, I did, but I cannot pay it. Listen, I know it's my debt. But I usually do not get in debt. I just made some mistake. And the thing with the $10,000 flights? The US Embassy used a travel agency owned by one of the Embassy employees. Sure, that is not suspicious, is it? At the time, I found flights on Orbitz for $1,500. But they won't do that. Now we are stuck.

              Under international law, one's nation is not allowed to hinder entering and exiting the country. But good luck fighting them! Coming back to the States was a mistake. Where we lived, we had some serious problems. But once we were safe, we should have got on our feet there. $300 a month makes you very rich there. And public transportation is amazing! Even if it is a dangerous place. We just want to go. We will not be back to cause anymore trouble. Give us our passports valid for a one-way exit!

              We are currently planning the trip, if we can get permission to leave, after clearing our debt. Under $2,000 to the other side of the world. To get to the 341 meeting? $4,000! That is only IF we can get a taxi from another state to come get us. And last time we tried, none would.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by despritfreya View Post
                LadyInTheRed

                OP has been informed on other forums that the repatriation loan (just like SS over payment) is not a priority claim and is dischargeable if there was no fraud (523(a) issues). I suspect, but am not sure, that there is a garnishment of the SS. The garnishment would stop once the bk is filed assuming OP contacted the US Department of Treasury (this Department is currently attempting to collect from OP).

                The problem is that from OP's prior posts on other forums, it appears that OP has used numerous SS numbers relative to obtaining the loan. Since he/she is either unable or unwilling to give more details there is no way to really know if there is a potential fraud issue or if there is a deeper back-story to the situation.

                Des.
                Your first part is correct, as far as I can tell by researching.

                Your second part-WTF???

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by david1971 View Post
                  Your second part-WTF???
                  http://boards.answers.findlaw.com/to...iority-claims/

                  "AbbyS1985 - We have a US Treasury debt. 8 of us. The debt is in our SSNs, but not our names. I understand that there is an SSN form for the bankruptcy? So does that mean that the bankruptcy will cover all people listed under those numbers? Also, I know your spouse can be included in the bankruptcy, but what about children?"

                  http://boards.answers.findlaw.com/to...to-file-under/

                  "AbbyS1986 - It's my debt. Just not in my name. Can't leave the country until the debt is paid.. . . It's my debt, obviously. Are people allowed to file bankruptcy for other people?"

                  It appears multiple SS numbers were used. But, again, we do not have all of the facts.

                  Des.


                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by despritfreya View Post

                    http://boards.answers.findlaw.com/to...iority-claims/

                    "AbbyS1985 - We have a US Treasury debt. 8 of us. The debt is in our SSNs, but not our names. I understand that there is an SSN form for the bankruptcy? So does that mean that the bankruptcy will cover all people listed under those numbers? Also, I know your spouse can be included in the bankruptcy, but what about children?"

                    http://boards.answers.findlaw.com/to...to-file-under/

                    "AbbyS1986 - It's my debt. Just not in my name. Can't leave the country until the debt is paid.. . . It's my debt, obviously. Are people allowed to file bankruptcy for other people?"

                    It appears multiple SS numbers were used. But, again, we do not have all of the facts.

                    Des.

                    Seriously considering reporting you.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by david1971 View Post
                      Seriously considering reporting you.
                      And this is one of the reasons you cannot get the answers you need. Alienating those trying to help is not a good move.

                      Des.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by despritfreya View Post

                        And this is one of the reasons you cannot get the answers you need. Alienating those trying to help is not a good move.

                        Des.
                        How is lying and accusing people of things "helping"? REPORTED!

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          david1971, despritfreya is a valued long-time member of this board. He posts here and elsewhere to help people when he could be spending the time doing the same thing for people who are potential paying clients. For many years, he has provided very valuable help to people who are willing to answer his questions. He is drawing conclusions based on the very confusing information you post, here and elsewhere. It is very difficult to help you when you answer only the questions you choose to and do not fully explain your situation. If his conclusions are incorrect, it is because you are providing incomplete and confusing information.

                          As suggested on the other site, you really need to consult with a bankruptcy attorney. Few people are equipped to successfully file BK without an attorney without a lot of headache. Based on your posts, I don't think you are one of them. Most bankruptcy attorneys give free consultations. Hopefully, your statement that you have contacted legal aid means you will get help from a bankruptcy attorney. If legal aid doesn't help you find a bankruptcy attorney, find one as close to you as possible and make an appointment for a free consultation. You may be able to do a telephone consultation. Be prepared to give clear, complete and detailed answers to their questions.
                          Last edited by LadyInTheRed; 02-09-2018, 12:43 PM.
                          LadyInTheRed is in the black!
                          Filed Chap 13 April 2010. Discharged May 2015.
                          $143,000 in debt discharged for $36,500, including attorneys fees. Money well spent!

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by LadyInTheRed View Post
                            david1971, despritfreya is a valued long-time member of this board. He posts here and elsewhere to help people when he could be spending the time doing the same thing for people who are potential paying clients. For many years, he has provided very valuable help to people who are willing to answer his questions. He is drawing conclusions based on the very confusing information you post, here and elsewhere. It is very difficult to help you when you answer only the questions you choose to and do not fully explain your situation. If his conclusions are incorrect, it is because you are providing incomplete and confusing information.

                            As suggested on the other site, you really need to consult with a bankruptcy attorney. Few people are equipped to successfully file BK without an attorney without a lot of headache. Based on your posts, I don't think you are one of them. Most bankruptcy attorneys give free consultations. Hopefully, your statement that you have contacted legal aid means you will get help from a bankruptcy attorney. If legal aid doesn't help you find a bankruptcy attorney, find one as close to you as possible and make an appointment for a free consultation. You may be able to do a telephone consultation. Be prepared to give clear, complete and detailed answers to their questions.
                            I am sorry, but how does accusing someone of using multiple Social Security Numbers HELP them? Does he really get paid for that?

                            And I just got off with legal aid. Can't get it.

                            Local legal aid wont touch it, because it is in another state. The one in the other state does not do bankruptcies. They directed me to another legal aid place that just hooks you up with paid attorneys. They sent me to another legal aid place, that is presumably free, but they said I need to apply in person, and also need to live in the state.

                            Freest country in the world with the most rights and protections, eh?

                            No disability accommodation.

                            Too poor to file for bankruptcy.

                            Prisoner in my own home.

                            Benefits being garnished for debt.

                            The best thing is? Since filing for bankruptcy, the sold my information and I am getting PILES of junkmail now! Ha ha. Credit cards, mortgages, personal loans, auto loans. What an ironic joke! But I have having all my personal information public. That seems like a violation of my privacy. Never in my life have I received junk mail. Now everyone in the world has my full name and address.

                            This stuff should be on the news!

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Nobody sold your information. Like most courts, everything filed in bankruptcy court is public record. It is easy for anybody to get the information electronically.

                              I said in another thread, that I was done, but I have one more suggestion for you. You filed pro se and I suspect your case will end up getting dismissed, From your posts here, I just don't think you are capable of doing this on your own. No offense. Filing a pro se BK is a big undertaking that most are not prepared for. Maybe you will prove me wrong. If not, after you are dismissed, I suggest you wait until 3 months after your move and then go back to legal aid so they can help you file in your state.
                              LadyInTheRed is in the black!
                              Filed Chap 13 April 2010. Discharged May 2015.
                              $143,000 in debt discharged for $36,500, including attorneys fees. Money well spent!

                              Comment

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