Announcement

Collapse

Forum Rules (Everyone Must Read!!!) (updated: 04/28/2015)

Welcome to the Bankruptcy Forum. Bankruptcy (BK) Forum is known as BKForum.com and will be referred to as BKF hereinafter. In order to ensure a long term success of our vibrant community, we have established certain rules and guidelines to which everyone must adhere to. Please take your time to carefully read our rules, before you start to participate in the community.

Things you agree to do:
BKFORUM.com (BKF) users agree to use the search function before starting a new thread. This prevents duplicate discussions and allows for better organized topics.

All BKF users agree to read the sticky posts which may be available at the top of a forum page. These Sticky posts often contain valuable information. They may also outline more rules and guidelines specific for that particular forum, stickies are put in place by that forums moderator(s) or admin(s).

Things you agree not to do:

All BKF users agree not to call people names or write a post simply to make a personal attack, or get a negative reaction; this behavior is not allowed on our forum. The use of derogatory language aimed at anyone will be severely dealt with. There is no need to agree with each other, or to even like each other. However, by signing onto BKForum.com you agree to treat each member and guest with the respect they deserve. No threats or personal attacks will be allowed.

All BKF users agree not to discuss, engage, or encourage any behavior or activity which violates the law. Discussion of drugs, violence, murder, theft, vandalism, fraud or any other issue which could be used to help individuals break the law is strictly forbidden.

All BKF users agree not to "bump" old threads, unless there is a specific benefit to the community by doing so. But in most cases, please don't post in very old threads, instead start new threads.

All BKF users agree not to attempt/use another members account. It is against BKF rules to use any account other than your own. Impersonating another member will result in an immediate ban. It is also against the rules to open more than one account in your own name without permission from a moderator or administrator. If you have been banned for any reason, it is against the rules to open another account. If you were banned temporarily and you are caught using another account you will be banned permanently. Choosing a moniker which is similar in either sound or spelling as a moderator or administrator is strictly forbidden.

All BKF users agree not to private message any moderator, admin, or other member with questions related to their personal circumstances (Questions about the forum or issues with the forum are ok). This forum only works when members share their experience and insights with everyone.

Things you agree not to post:
All BKF users agree not to post any derogatory/racist/or sexist remarks. This includes attachments, links and all information contained within posts, signatures, and avatars, failure to comply with this rule will result in a permanent ban.

All BKF users agree not to post any copyrighted or trademarked information without the express written permission of the owner(s) / proper citation of source.

All BKF users agree not to post any real names, addresses, telephone numbers, email addresses, social security numbers, or any other personal details (their own or other people's).

All BKF users agree not to post links, pictures, attachments, videos, or the like of pornographic content, objectionable material or extreme violence, whether cartoon or real.

All BKF users agree not to use BKF for advertising purposes without a written contract between yourself/company/agent and the administration of BKF. Blatant advertising will result in a ban.

All BKF users agree not to spam the forums. Spam includes but is not limited to posting erroneous, non-relevant-useless, off-topic, or meaningless posts. Spam may also include posts which contain no text, or large areas of blank space between lines. Simply posting emoticons without text is considered spam. BKF is the largest bankruptcy message board and all the content is intended to help other users. Please help us improve the quality of our forum by making sure that your posts are well-worded, spell checked, grammatically correct and syntaxed.

Regarding actions of moderators and administrators:

The forum is no place to air out your opinion or be judgmental of our staff and its capabilities.

All BKF users agree not to abuse or mistreat moderators or administrators. It is against BKF rules to post any information regarding bans or any other action taken by a member of the moderating or administrative team. If you wish to discuss bans or warnings please do so via PM. To place a complaint against a moderator, send a PM to a super moderator. All Moderators are equal, any decision made by a moderator must be adhered to. If a moderator tells you something you do not like, do not go to another moderator looking for a different answer. If you are caught doing this you will be banned. The moderators work as a team and respect the decisions made by their peers and will help enforce them unless an administrator tells them differently.
If you have an issue with how the forum is run, then notify one of our administrator and we will look into the situation. We have in the past and still do appreciate any input that you offer this forum. But critical input and/or judgmental postings towards the staff will result in you getting banned.


Should you find a thread offensive or out of line, then notify a Mod in a PM so they can evaluate the situation and do the action deemed necessary.

All moderators do have active "other" lives outside of the forum and help moderate this forum in their spare time throughout the days and weeks.

If you have a problem with a member or Mod follow the proper channels of reporting it.

BKF reserves the right to delete any posts which contain anti-BKF comments or discussion. Any bashing of moderators or administrators, or any of their discussion or actions will also be deleted, and the responsible posting party(s) will be banned. Any public anti-BKF advertising, communication, or posts on another forum will result in permanent bans as well.

All warnings and bans are decided by individual moderators and administrators. Warnings are preferable to bans however, for serious offenses and repeat abusers bans will go into effect. The length of the bans can vary from several hours to permanent.

All messages posted or sent including through PM are the property of BKforum.com.

All BKF users agree not to advertiser on the forum (Niether by posting, private messaging or using your signature). If you are a company/attorney/legal adviser wishing to advertise on the site or sell a product, you must contact the head administrator and inquire about our advertising packages.

All bankruptcy related opinions expressed on BKForum.com are those of their authors and not necessarily of BKF, its staff or representatives.

You agree not to copy any material/post/content from BKF without written permission from our head administrator .

By posting on this forum you agree to these terms and conditions, including any punishment deemed appropriate by moderators or administrators in the event of an offense.

Administrators/Moderators can change these rules at any time without prior notice.
See more
See less

Car value

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Car value

    Does anyone know how to properly determine a car's value for the purpose of trying to exempt it?
    I've looked at KBB, but don't know which value is used. Retail, trade in, private seller.

    Thanks!

    Bill

  • #2
    Generally speaking, most Trustees and Courts use "clean retail". Yup, that's right, clean retail for purposes of valuation. Not all District use Kelley, as some use NADA or Black Book. You would be okay to use "clean retail".

    If you're going to redeem a vehicle, you get to use "wholesale" value ("clean trade-in").
    Chapter 7 (No Asset/Non-Consumer) Filed (Pro Se) 7/08 (converted from Chapter 13 - 2/10)
    Status: (Auto) Discharged and Closed! 5/10
    Visit My BKForum Blog: justbroke's Blog


    I am not an attorney. Any advice provided is not legal advice.

    Comment


    • #3
      More bass ackward BK stuff.
      Sometimes you just have to scratch your head.

      Keep On Smilin'

      Comment


      • #4
        Well at least I was kind of planning worst case when trying to factor my exepmptions. I know my attorney knows all this stuff, I just wanted to have an idea what she's talking about when I meet with her next.

        Thanks!

        Comment


        • #5
          We used Carmax value and it was excepted without question.
          Lawyer - $3000
          Filing fee - $299
          Fresh Start - Priceless

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by jst4f View Post
            We used Carmax value and it was excepted without question.
            Really, the only thing that makes sense.
            Otherwise can lead to stupid situations, where the tt takes the car, tries to sell it, and can't get the value for it. Aggravation for everyone. Happened a few months ago to someone here.

            Keep On Smilin'

            Comment


            • #7
              It really depends on the Trustee and whether they trust the valuation method. It can become really important in cases where a thousand in value could mean the difference between asset and no-asset case.

              Valuation also is different if you're redeeming versus retaining and exempting, and can vary based on a Chapter 13 versus a Chapter 7.
              Chapter 7 (No Asset/Non-Consumer) Filed (Pro Se) 7/08 (converted from Chapter 13 - 2/10)
              Status: (Auto) Discharged and Closed! 5/10
              Visit My BKForum Blog: justbroke's Blog


              I am not an attorney. Any advice provided is not legal advice.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by justbroke View Post
                It really depends on the Trustee and whether they trust the valuation method. It can become really important in cases where a thousand in value could mean the difference between asset and no-asset case.

                Valuation also is different if you're redeeming versus retaining and exempting, and can vary based on a Chapter 13 versus a Chapter 7.
                I think this nails it. It depends on the trustee and the facts of the specific case.

                One of my cars was brand new and the value was really irrelevant since I owed more than it was worth that soon after purchase. I used KBB private party "fair" condition value for my 11 year old truck and it wasn't questioned. But, I had enough unused wild card exemption to cover more than twice the retail value. If that wasn't the case and the trustee didn't think I was paying enough to my unsecured creditors to cover what she thought was the non exempt value, maybe she would have objected to my valuation.

                billjacobs, I suggest gathering all relevant information you can on the value of your car and giving it to your attorney along with an explanation of what you think the value is and why.
                LadyInTheRed is in the black!
                Filed Chap 13 April 2010. Discharged May 2015.
                $143,000 in debt discharged for $36,500, including attorneys fees. Money well spent!

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by justbroke
                  If you're going to redeem a vehicle, you get to use "wholesale" value ("clean trade-in").
                  Thank you. My car is worth 6000 retail but only 3300 wholesale. I would like to redeem it in my chapter 7; but would have a hard time scrounging up 6000. Will I be able to redeem my car for 3300 if the car secures a 12000 consolidation loan? I would like the loan forgiven in chapter 7, but would like to offer the credit union 3300 for the car. Suggestions?
                  Last edited by justbroke; 02-23-2013, 09:58 AM. Reason: moderator fixed formatting

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Kristy12 View Post
                    Thank you. My car is worth 6000 retail but only 3300 wholesale. I would like to redeem it in my chapter 7; but would have a hard time scrounging up 6000. Will I be able to redeem my car for 3300 if the car secures a 12000 consolidation loan? I would like the loan forgiven in chapter 7, but would like to offer the credit union 3300 for the car. Suggestions?
                    Yes, you could redeem it with any security attached. The credit union will probably fight since they are amongst the most aggressive creditors (and with reason). You would need to find financing for the $3,300 redemption price. You would need to file a Motion to Redeem and submit evidence, as exhibits, showing the valuation. You will also need to show where you would get the money for the redemption.

                    If you're looking for financing, 722 Redemption (a US Bank company) does these every single day. The interest rate will be very high (in the twenties), but you could refinance (as I did) 6 months later. (I refinanced at 7.9% in 6 months!)

                    In my Motion to Redeem, I used valuation from Edmunds AND Kelley Blue Book and took the average of those too (clean trade-in). I also took money off for tires and some minor mechanical issues. At first, the lender barked at the Redemption, but their attorney called me 2 weeks before the hearing and gave me a LOWER redemption amount than I was asking if I would do a stipulated Order on the Redemption!
                    Chapter 7 (No Asset/Non-Consumer) Filed (Pro Se) 7/08 (converted from Chapter 13 - 2/10)
                    Status: (Auto) Discharged and Closed! 5/10
                    Visit My BKForum Blog: justbroke's Blog


                    I am not an attorney. Any advice provided is not legal advice.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      This is interesting.

                      My car shows NADA "clean retail" at $5,000. But...the insurance company nearly totaled it after the last accident...claiming KBB fair condition at $2500 when the repairs were close to that value. Shop cut a lot of corners to get under $2k on repairs. Lots of stuff still wrong, but had to accept that or lose the car

                      I owe nothing on it....and couldn't come up with the money to buy another...or make payments either.

                      Does it matter that the car is the sole transportation for myself and my disabled parents? I am their sole caregiver. I am the only one able to drive in the house. (They are 94 and 90).

                      Does it matter that the car has been in so many accidents I tell people that the ash tray is original.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Newposter, the insurance company has completely different motivations than a bankruptcy trustee. Do what I suggested billjacobs do in my post above.

                        I am unaware of any exceptions to exemptions based on need. That would probably depend on your state's exemption laws.

                        The value is a potential point of negotiation. The debtor takes a position on the value. The trustee can accept it or file an objection (hopefully after asking questions). If an objection is filed, you and the trustee both give evidence for your valuation and the judge decides.
                        LadyInTheRed is in the black!
                        Filed Chap 13 April 2010. Discharged May 2015.
                        $143,000 in debt discharged for $36,500, including attorneys fees. Money well spent!

                        Comment

                        Unconfigured Ad Widget

                        Collapse
                        Working...
                        X