Announcement

Collapse

Forum Rules (Everyone Must Read!!!) (updated: 04/28/2015)

Welcome to the Bankruptcy Forum. Bankruptcy (BK) Forum is known as BKForum.com and will be referred to as BKF hereinafter. In order to ensure a long term success of our vibrant community, we have established certain rules and guidelines to which everyone must adhere to. Please take your time to carefully read our rules, before you start to participate in the community.

Things you agree to do:
BKFORUM.com (BKF) users agree to use the search function before starting a new thread. This prevents duplicate discussions and allows for better organized topics.

All BKF users agree to read the sticky posts which may be available at the top of a forum page. These Sticky posts often contain valuable information. They may also outline more rules and guidelines specific for that particular forum, stickies are put in place by that forums moderator(s) or admin(s).

Things you agree not to do:

All BKF users agree not to call people names or write a post simply to make a personal attack, or get a negative reaction; this behavior is not allowed on our forum. The use of derogatory language aimed at anyone will be severely dealt with. There is no need to agree with each other, or to even like each other. However, by signing onto BKForum.com you agree to treat each member and guest with the respect they deserve. No threats or personal attacks will be allowed.

All BKF users agree not to discuss, engage, or encourage any behavior or activity which violates the law. Discussion of drugs, violence, murder, theft, vandalism, fraud or any other issue which could be used to help individuals break the law is strictly forbidden.

All BKF users agree not to "bump" old threads, unless there is a specific benefit to the community by doing so. But in most cases, please don't post in very old threads, instead start new threads.

All BKF users agree not to attempt/use another members account. It is against BKF rules to use any account other than your own. Impersonating another member will result in an immediate ban. It is also against the rules to open more than one account in your own name without permission from a moderator or administrator. If you have been banned for any reason, it is against the rules to open another account. If you were banned temporarily and you are caught using another account you will be banned permanently. Choosing a moniker which is similar in either sound or spelling as a moderator or administrator is strictly forbidden.

All BKF users agree not to private message any moderator, admin, or other member with questions related to their personal circumstances (Questions about the forum or issues with the forum are ok). This forum only works when members share their experience and insights with everyone.

Things you agree not to post:
All BKF users agree not to post any derogatory/racist/or sexist remarks. This includes attachments, links and all information contained within posts, signatures, and avatars, failure to comply with this rule will result in a permanent ban.

All BKF users agree not to post any copyrighted or trademarked information without the express written permission of the owner(s) / proper citation of source.

All BKF users agree not to post any real names, addresses, telephone numbers, email addresses, social security numbers, or any other personal details (their own or other people's).

All BKF users agree not to post links, pictures, attachments, videos, or the like of pornographic content, objectionable material or extreme violence, whether cartoon or real.

All BKF users agree not to use BKF for advertising purposes without a written contract between yourself/company/agent and the administration of BKF. Blatant advertising will result in a ban.

All BKF users agree not to spam the forums. Spam includes but is not limited to posting erroneous, non-relevant-useless, off-topic, or meaningless posts. Spam may also include posts which contain no text, or large areas of blank space between lines. Simply posting emoticons without text is considered spam. BKF is the largest bankruptcy message board and all the content is intended to help other users. Please help us improve the quality of our forum by making sure that your posts are well-worded, spell checked, grammatically correct and syntaxed.

Regarding actions of moderators and administrators:

The forum is no place to air out your opinion or be judgmental of our staff and its capabilities.

All BKF users agree not to abuse or mistreat moderators or administrators. It is against BKF rules to post any information regarding bans or any other action taken by a member of the moderating or administrative team. If you wish to discuss bans or warnings please do so via PM. To place a complaint against a moderator, send a PM to a super moderator. All Moderators are equal, any decision made by a moderator must be adhered to. If a moderator tells you something you do not like, do not go to another moderator looking for a different answer. If you are caught doing this you will be banned. The moderators work as a team and respect the decisions made by their peers and will help enforce them unless an administrator tells them differently.
If you have an issue with how the forum is run, then notify one of our administrator and we will look into the situation. We have in the past and still do appreciate any input that you offer this forum. But critical input and/or judgmental postings towards the staff will result in you getting banned.


Should you find a thread offensive or out of line, then notify a Mod in a PM so they can evaluate the situation and do the action deemed necessary.

All moderators do have active "other" lives outside of the forum and help moderate this forum in their spare time throughout the days and weeks.

If you have a problem with a member or Mod follow the proper channels of reporting it.

BKF reserves the right to delete any posts which contain anti-BKF comments or discussion. Any bashing of moderators or administrators, or any of their discussion or actions will also be deleted, and the responsible posting party(s) will be banned. Any public anti-BKF advertising, communication, or posts on another forum will result in permanent bans as well.

All warnings and bans are decided by individual moderators and administrators. Warnings are preferable to bans however, for serious offenses and repeat abusers bans will go into effect. The length of the bans can vary from several hours to permanent.

All messages posted or sent including through PM are the property of BKforum.com.

All BKF users agree not to advertiser on the forum (Niether by posting, private messaging or using your signature). If you are a company/attorney/legal adviser wishing to advertise on the site or sell a product, you must contact the head administrator and inquire about our advertising packages.

All bankruptcy related opinions expressed on BKForum.com are those of their authors and not necessarily of BKF, its staff or representatives.

You agree not to copy any material/post/content from BKF without written permission from our head administrator .

By posting on this forum you agree to these terms and conditions, including any punishment deemed appropriate by moderators or administrators in the event of an offense.

Administrators/Moderators can change these rules at any time without prior notice.
See more
See less

Speeding Up Foreclosure

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Speeding Up Foreclosure

    Probably one of the few times someone has asked how to make the foreclosure happen faster.

    The issue is this.

    Chapter 7 filed and discharged. Client had a 2nd home that they gave up in the bankruptcy. But the bank has not moved to foreclose and the city is coming after the clients for violations (IE unmowed lawn, broken window, etc).

    The city says that since clients are still legal owners they are liable.

    Pushing the bank to take the property back but they won't foreclose and the short sale process takes months. Offered deed in lieu but they won't do that either.

    Anyone figured out a trick to get them to take the house back ?

  • #2
    None. However, HOAs seem to have figured out how to do a reverse foreclosure in South Florida. I think this option should be available for homeowners.

    I would somehow talk the City into foreclosing on the property (in rem) and them doing the reverse mortgage to the first lienholder.
    Chapter 7 (No Asset/Non-Consumer) Filed (Pro Se) 7/08 (converted from Chapter 13 - 2/10)
    Status: (Auto) Discharged and Closed! 5/10
    Visit My BKForum Blog: justbroke's Blog


    I am not an attorney. Any advice provided is not legal advice.

    Comment


    • #3
      Just wondering, do violation fines follow the house, or the owner? Could the city/county eventually put a lein on the house for the fines(thereby eventually transfering liability to the bank), or do they follow the discharged owner? May have this problem coming to us eventually.
      I read about "quiet" claims awhile back. Some attorney in FL trying to get them done for clients- don't know the outcome. Not that you'd ever get it done, but I wonder if attempting a quiet claim would be a wake up call for the bank to get moving.
      All posts are opinion only- I am not an attorney.

      Comment


      • #4
        Quit Claims require consideration and acceptance by the person who you are QCing the property. Most lenders don't like QCs because they are not Warranty Deeds nor are they insured with Title Insurance. A QC doesn't guarantee that there are not other encumbrances on the property. This is why banks prefer to foreclose, as that quits the title quite nicely, efficiently and with all the power of the Courts behind it.

        As for whether violations attach to the property or are an in personam liability to the registered owner, is a question for your local laws (City, Town, County). Read the ordinance and see what they extent of the fine is. Most civil infractions are punished by fines and the Bankruptcy Code doesn't discharge fines. You could be stuck with the fines.
        Chapter 7 (No Asset/Non-Consumer) Filed (Pro Se) 7/08 (converted from Chapter 13 - 2/10)
        Status: (Auto) Discharged and Closed! 5/10
        Visit My BKForum Blog: justbroke's Blog


        I am not an attorney. Any advice provided is not legal advice.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by lodibklaw View Post
          The city says that since clients are still legal owners they are liable.

          Anyone figured out a trick to get them to take the house back ?
          This is a BIG problem everywhere these days. The answer to the problem to relieve your clients personal liability would to form a shell company, LLC, and client QC's the property to the LLC. That will at least get the city off your clients back for the time being, and what you are seeking here is temporary relief. Then let the lender and the city fight it out.

          Cities usually have all sorts of remedies financially that they can maintain the issue, of course it costs them to do so, but then pass along the costs via tax bill. Trouble is cities have no $$$ and your client doesn't have motivation or $$$ to do so. But for 100-200 bucks they could form the entity and have a public transfer, PO Box for mailing address of LLC, and they will all be chasing their tales. Even the lender, if foreclosure hasn't started, to provide notice to new LLC. This is kind of like parking an old unlicences junker on the street, or cutting an old skiff loose to drift at sea.

          You may or may not be able to recommend that course of action to a client but I would do it in a heartbeat. I guess it also depends on fees to establish an LLC in your state, but here they are fairly inexpensive.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by justbroke View Post
            Quit Claims require consideration and acceptance by the person who you are QCing the property. Most lenders don't like QCs because they are not Warranty Deeds nor are they insured with Title Insurance. A QC doesn't guarantee that there are not other encumbrances on the property. This is why banks prefer to foreclose, as that quits the title quite nicely, efficiently and with all the power of the Courts behind it.

            As for whether violations attach to the property or are an in personam liability to the registered owner, is a question for your local laws (City, Town, County). Read the ordinance and see what they extent of the fine is. Most civil infractions are punished by fines and the Bankruptcy Code doesn't discharge fines. You could be stuck with the fines.
            No, this attorney was filing QUIET claims- not quit claims. I don't really understand it yet- trying to research.

            The gist of her explanation is that because the banks basically "abandon the property" after foreclosure, by not taking title, not maintaining the property, not forcing occupants out, leaving the titled owner with liability. Filing a quiet claim, if successful, would end the banks rights to take the property back.

            I think she was using it as a tactic to force the banks to take title, or risk losing rights to the property altogether.

            Of couse, if faced with a quiet claim, the banks most likely will tell the courts that it is their property. To which a homewner could respond by saying- well, then take title. How does a lender explain to a judge "I want to own it, I just don't want the resposibility to maintain and insure it, so for now, I'm leaving title in the plaintiffs name and not filing the neccesary paperwork to take title." I don't think that excuse would fly.

            It was an interesting strategy and I wonder if it works. I think the article said it take about 6mos. of no claims by others to get a quiet claim done.

            The attorney was in Tampa Fl, I believe.
            All posts are opinion only- I am not an attorney.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by sofarsogood2 View Post
              No, this attorney was filing QUIET claims- not quit claims. I don't really understand it yet- trying to research.

              The gist of her explanation is that because the banks basically "abandon the property" after foreclosure, by not taking title, not maintaining the property, not forcing occupants out, leaving the titled owner with liability. Filing a quiet claim, if successful, would end the banks rights to take the property back.

              I think she was using it as a tactic to force the banks to take title, or risk losing rights to the property altogether.

              Of couse, if faced with a quiet claim, the banks most likely will tell the courts that it is their property. To which a homewner could respond by saying- well, then take title. How does a lender explain to a judge "I want to own it, I just don't want the resposibility to maintain and insure it, so for now, I'm leaving title in the plaintiffs name and not filing the neccesary paperwork to take title." I don't think that excuse would fly.

              It was an interesting strategy and I wonder if it works. I think the article said it take about 6mos. of no claims by others to get a quiet claim done.

              The attorney was in Tampa Fl, I believe.
              QUIETING of Title and QUIT CLAIM DEED are two different animals. A QTA is akin to a suit filing for anyone having an interest in the property to state so after proper notice, the QC deed is just that, a Deed conveying away the property. I do understand what the Atty in Tampa is attempting to accomplish but maybe she doesn't really understand it all that well either.

              You state that Lender couldn't say they have an interest but that they aren't foreclosing right now indicates that you don't understand this at all either. In a QTA (Quiet Titel Action) that this Atty has filed all the bank has to do is answer the complaint stating that they have a valid mtg interest and that is the end of the QTA. What the Atty is hoping is that the mtg lender will fail to file an answer and after 120-180 days of failure to establish their claim the mtg is gone. That is not going to happen; period. There is nothing in a mtg doc that states that the lender must foreclose until they are ready; notta. That mtg could sit there for years, the property just the same in deteriorating condition, and there is absolutely nothing that would compel the lender to do a thing. Of course that would make a horrible business practice but that in itself describes many of these large lenders with positions in serious default.

              A QUIT Claim is a type of deed. It conveys whatever interest the owner has in the property, if any. No warranties as to ownership and if the Grantee (the bank who is accepting the deed) later determines a defect in the title such as lien or other cloud on the title, they have NO recourse back to the Grantor (the former owner of the property who executed the deed).

              Comment


              • #8
                OK, if the person discharged and has received any paper work of the Mortgage company's intent to foreclose, and drags feet, could the house owner under the risk of foreclosure write a public letter (newspaper, and certified mail as well to the Court) that he defers all interest in the house back to the mortgage company by thus and such date and assumes no responsibility thereafter?

                If this is not possible, could the house owner put his own lien on the property for it's maintenance and insurance after the same type of notice? 'Hub
                If I knew it all, would I be here?? Hang in there = Retained attorney 8-06, Filed 12-28-07, Discharge 8-13-08, Finally CLOSED 11-3-09, 3-31-10 AP Dismissed, Informed by incompetent lawyer of CLOSED status, October 14, 2010.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by AngelinaCatHub View Post
                  OK, if the person discharged and has received any paper work of the Mortgage company's intent to foreclose, and drags feet, could the house owner under the risk of foreclosure write a public letter (newspaper, and certified mail as well to the Court) that he defers all interest in the house back to the mortgage company by thus and such date and assumes no responsibility thereafter?

                  If this is not possible, could the house owner put his own lien on the property for it's maintenance and insurance after the same type of notice? 'Hub
                  NO and NO.

                  Can't dissavow your liability by public notice. Also can't put a lien on your house and even if you could it does nothing to address the real issue here, the City coming after the owner personally.

                  The solution is to change ownership; albeit a shell game, but it would work temporarily in most venues. Kinda fun to have the City running around like the Keystone Cops looking to enforce and they have no idea who the real owner is.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Mensa1 View Post
                    NO and NO.

                    Can't dissavow your liability by public notice. Also can't put a lien on your house and even if you could it does nothing to address the real issue here, the City coming after the owner personally.

                    The solution is to change ownership; albeit a shell game, but it would work temporarily in most venues. Kinda fun to have the City running around like the Keystone Cops looking to enforce and they have no idea who the real owner is.
                    Well, if it were me under these terms, I would probably sock a couple hundred into the place to fix and clean it up, and then rent it out month to month. Let the renters take care of it and glean a few bucks at the mortgage company's expense. If I'd be stuck with the liability, it would behoove me to make out at their expense. 'Hub
                    If I knew it all, would I be here?? Hang in there = Retained attorney 8-06, Filed 12-28-07, Discharge 8-13-08, Finally CLOSED 11-3-09, 3-31-10 AP Dismissed, Informed by incompetent lawyer of CLOSED status, October 14, 2010.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      I see the point in your suggestion 'Hub. However, renting to someone, even if on a month to month basis, feels wrong. They would have to move again, possibly in 3 months, 6 months, who knows? I woudn't want to be a party to another family's hardship.

                      I guess maybe renting to a single person without children who understood the ramifications and could pack up quickly and leave. You'd be renting it cheaply in return for the possible complications.

                      Then there's the income taxes to be paid on that income with no expenses to write off on it.

                      Hmmmm...

                      Mensa:

                      The LLC thing is a thought, but eventually wouldn't the bill come back to you?
                      All posts are opinion only- I am not an attorney.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        What the Atty is hoping is that the mtg lender will fail to file an answer and after 120-180 days of failure to establish their claim the mtg is gone. That is not going to happen; period.

                        I dunno about that. If the value on the home, due to lack of maintenance and repair issues is low enough, the bank may not bother to claim it right now. It may cause them more liability than it's worth.

                        Also, banks seem pretty confused and sometimes unable to locate the appropriate paperwork, or get that paperwork to the appropriate person. One hand doesn't know what the other is doing. I bet, in a very limited number of cases, this could slip by them.

                        Anyway, I'm hoping to see some creative attorney come up with a way to get the banks to take title after they foreclose. It doesn't seem right that they can claim all the benefits of ownership, but not the liabilties. With the right strategy and an empathetic judge, I think we'll see some movement in this arena at some point.
                        All posts are opinion only- I am not an attorney.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by sofarsogood2 View Post
                          The LLC thing is a thought, but eventually wouldn't the bill come back to you?
                          The bill comes to the LLC, and LLC simply defaults on the obligation. No personal liability to the member of the LLC. It will work.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Mensa1 View Post
                            The bill comes to the LLC, and LLC simply defaults on the obligation. No personal liability to the member of the LLC. It will work.
                            AHHH!! Thanx for the info., I may need it. The bank cannot object to you transfering title, even if property is foreclosed or in some state of foreclosure?
                            All posts are opinion only- I am not an attorney.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by sofarsogood2 View Post
                              What the Atty is hoping is that the mtg lender will fail to file an answer and after 120-180 days of failure to establish their claim the mtg is gone. That is not going to happen; period.

                              I dunno about that. If the value on the home, due to lack of maintenance and repair issues is low enough, the bank may not bother to claim it right now. It may cause them more liability than it's worth.

                              Also, banks seem pretty confused and sometimes unable to locate the appropriate paperwork, or get that paperwork to the appropriate person. One hand doesn't know what the other is doing. I bet, in a very limited number of cases, this could slip by them.

                              Anyway, I'm hoping to see some creative attorney come up with a way to get the banks to take title after they foreclose. It doesn't seem right that they can claim all the benefits of ownership, but not the liabilties. With the right strategy and an empathetic judge, I think we'll see some movement in this arena at some point.
                              Trust me, the chances of a QTA ridding you of a mtg from a comm'l lender are slim and none, and slim just left town. Liability, there is NO real liability to the lien holder for wahtever happens or doesn't happen on that property, period. Sure, something that happens there could affect the underlying value of the home, (meth lab, murder scene, etc) but weeds and general disrepair that the city is complaining about have little impact and can be resolved inexpensively when the lender does accept title (via foreclosure when they get around to it).

                              Maybe one in a 100K QTA cases would it happen for a lender interest be quieted. The action is way too expensive to just throw it on the wall and see it sticks, or doesn't stick. You're talkin 3-5K for a QTA, on avg. Nobody is gambling that kind of $$$ with such a olow expected return. Yes, Banks are screwed up right now but they have stop-gaps for these type of things.

                              Oxymoron: Creative Atty. No offense meant, but they aren't paid for working outside the box, they are paid for keeping things inside the box (rule compliance) for the most part.

                              Comment

                              Unconfigured Ad Widget

                              Collapse
                              Working...
                              X