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    I am stuck between a rock and hard place. I filed Chapter 7 and the trustee turned it over to chapter 13 US trustee. I have been getting all this info for my lawyer and letting her handle it. She is a fighter which I like. Today I was talking to her and she needed more stuff. There is affine line between 7 & 13. She stated at the end that which ever way it goes the attorney fees will be sent to me or put into the 13. I didn't realize I was be charged fees. I understand she is trying to help and fight for me. I am at the end of my rope. I am mentally,physically and emotionally exhausted from all this stress. Now this fee are thrown in . I left her a message about the fees. I am at the point to tell her just to convert to make it a 13 and forget 7. I want this over with and move on with my life and pay the trustee and live my life. I have no clue what to do anymore. She did say all the paperwork looked good for 7 but on thing was we went away in April which this was planned 2 years ago way before the BK. Now they want more of my husbands info ( he didn't file) and I feel like they are invading his private life. They want 401k his statements( which ii understand) I am so over whelmed.. Not sure what to do but I don't want to rack up all these crazy fees Thank you for any help or insight

  • #2
    Originally posted by Izz918 View Post
    I am stuck between a rock and hard place. I filed Chapter 7 and the trustee turned it over to chapter 13 US trustee. I have been getting all this info for my lawyer and letting her handle it. She is a fighter which I like. Today I was talking to her and she needed more stuff. There is affine line between 7 & 13. She stated at the end that which ever way it goes the attorney fees will be sent to me or put into the 13. I didn't realize I was be charged fees. I understand she is trying to help and fight for me. I am at the end of my rope. I am mentally,physically and emotionally exhausted from all this stress. Now this fee are thrown in . I left her a message about the fees. I am at the point to tell her just to convert to make it a 13 and forget 7. I want this over with and move on with my life and pay the trustee and live my life. I have no clue what to do anymore. She did say all the paperwork looked good for 7 but on thing was we went away in April which this was planned 2 years ago way before the BK. Now they want more of my husbands info ( he didn't file) and I feel like they are invading his private life. They want 401k his statements( which ii understand) I am so over whelmed.. Not sure what to do but I don't want to rack up all these crazy fees Thank you for any help or insight
    A Chapter 7 Trustee cannot simply turn over a case to a Chapter 13 Trustee because a Chapter 13 is entirely voluntary. I hope that the case is that you filed Chapter 7 but failed to rebut a presumption of abuse and were given a choice to have the case dismiss or convert to a Chapter 13.

    I don't know what an "affine" is.

    If you do voluntarily choose to go into a Chapter 13, yes there are additional attorney fees because it's a lot more work. These additional fees are typically put into your Chapter 13 Plan of Reorganization and are paid from the funds in the plan. If you actually have disposable monthly income (DMI), which it seems that you do, then the attorney is paid from money that is already surplus funds (your DMI). It wouldn't be "additional" money that you would have to pay on top of your Chapter 13 (except in extremely rare cases of a 100% plan).

    Unfortunately it sounds like this either wasn't explained to you well enough for you to understand, or you missed some important points. Your spouses income is a factor in bankruptcy regardless of whether they file with you. The Trustee needs their employment, income, tax and expense information to make a fair assessment as to just how much the non-filing spouse contributes to the household.

    You should not have any additional Chapter 7 fees unless you want your attorney to fight more than they normally fight for a Chapter 7 discharge. The key here is cooperation with the Chapter 7 Trustee and provide every piece of information requested. The reality is that thousands and thousands go through this process without any concern (about 95%). So long as you provide the information and the information supports your Chapter 7 discharge, everything is smooth. If, however, you -- or your lawyer -- filed a Chapter 7 and did not include spousal income then that's something that has to be resolved.
    Chapter 7 (No Asset/Non-Consumer) Filed (Pro Se) 7/08 (converted from Chapter 13 - 2/10)
    Status: (Auto) Discharged and Closed! 5/10
    Visit My BKForum Blog: justbroke's Blog


    I am not an attorney. Any advice provided is not legal advice.

    Comment


    • #3
      a fine line

      as in "a fine line between a 7 and 13"

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by Chrysalis View Post
        a fine line

        as in "a fine line between a 7 and 13"
        Thanks, because "affine" means something else to me. I suppose that Izz918 was trying to say that they are a borderline Chapter 7.
        Chapter 7 (No Asset/Non-Consumer) Filed (Pro Se) 7/08 (converted from Chapter 13 - 2/10)
        Status: (Auto) Discharged and Closed! 5/10
        Visit My BKForum Blog: justbroke's Blog


        I am not an attorney. Any advice provided is not legal advice.

        Comment


        • #5
          Sorry yes it is a fine line between the two. The chapter 7 trustee sent my case to the US trustee because she felt it should be a 13. I passed the means test and what they are questioning is my husbands debt. I gave the lawyer all our information. I understand that they needs his income and bills. We did include it and his debts when we filed. But now the US trustee wants all his statements for hr past year. 401k info. Our joint and individual checking and savings. My lawyer is fighting for chapter 7 and trying to prove that it should be a 7. I guess either way there are fee's. I spoke to her this afternoon and she said the fees would not be a lot and will give me a break down. She told me she also spoke to the US trustee and he is extending my timing for discharge until 11/13/17. He is looking for anything fraud ( which there isn't) also told me not to worry and try to not stress. Hope I explained my case clearer. thank you for the help

          Comment


          • #6
            Did your attorney say that the UST is pursuing this as "fraud" or was it simply that the UST looks at a host of issues, including fraud. What they are likely reviewing is what we call "abuse." Abuse occurs when you have the means to fund a Chapter 13, but you want to use Chapter 7.

            I would not worry. You have an attorney that appears to be willing to fight for your Chapter 7 discharge. Paperwork and documentation is what helps clarify that you are not abusing the system and that your husband's income truly doesn't offset any of your personal income.

            Hang in there.
            Chapter 7 (No Asset/Non-Consumer) Filed (Pro Se) 7/08 (converted from Chapter 13 - 2/10)
            Status: (Auto) Discharged and Closed! 5/10
            Visit My BKForum Blog: justbroke's Blog


            I am not an attorney. Any advice provided is not legal advice.

            Comment


            • #7
              Thanks I am trying to hang in there. My attorney is a fighter that's for sure. She is telling me not to worry but I still do. I am getting all the paperwork she needs and going to drop them off to her next week when she is back. She said he is not looking for fraud issues just to verify that all my husbands debt is paid and what it was spent on in the past year. He really didn't use the credit cards. I guess he just wants to justify the chapter 7 and make sure we don't have any hidden assets. Which we don't so I am not worried about that. We are just normal people that work 40 hours a week. The reason I filed and he didn't was I have more debt due to being out of work for 4 months from major ankle surgery.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Izz918 View Post
                I filed Chapter 7 and the trustee turned it over to chapter 13 US trustee.
                Since this confusion came up here, I thought I would provide information on the different trustees and their rolls. It is the US Trustee that is involved, not the Chap 13 Trustee. In a Chap 7, a Chap 7 panel trustee is in charge of administering the chap 7 estate. In a Chap 13, the plan is administered by the Chap 13 standing trustee. The panel trustees and standing trustees are supervised by the US Trustee. In addition to supervision and other tasks, the US Trustee is the one who reviews Chap 7 cases for "substantial abuse" and files objections to discharge if they think it is appropriate. The Chap 7 trustee did not turn anything over because it is still the panel trustee's job to administer the Chap 7 estate.

                You can read more about the US Trustee's role at https://www.justice.gov/ust/bankrupt...nkruptcy-cases

                As for attorney fees, it is entirely possible that there will be additional fees even if there is no conversion to a Chap 13. The only way to know is to read your fee agreement to find out what is and is not included in the fee you paid. As an example, see the post at http://www.bkforum.com/forum/before-...rging-too-much The OP posted many details of his/her fee agreement, including the following description of what is included in the $900 fee: "one meeting to turn the paperwork in, preparation of the paperwork, a meeting to sign the paperwork, filing of the original BK petition, necessary schedules, statements, list of creditors and the appearance of the attorney at the initial meeting of the creditors. " The post goes on to give examples of what is not included like "The trustee or UST may request information that was not required to be provided at the time of filing (verification of property values, expenses or documents regarding transfers). " In that fee agreement, responding to the US trustee's requests probably wouldn't be included.

                LadyInTheRed is in the black!
                Filed Chap 13 April 2010. Discharged May 2015.
                $143,000 in debt discharged for $36,500, including attorneys fees. Money well spent!

                Comment


                • Izz918
                  Izz918 commented
                  Editing a comment
                  Thank you for clearing that up for me. I have to reread my agreement again. She told me not to stress and whatever the fee's are we can do payments. Right now I will just wait it out and see what the outcome will be. My discharge has been extended to 11/13/17 so hopefully everything will be wrapped up before then and not extended again...

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