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Sold vehicles and chapter 7

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  • Sold vehicles and chapter 7

    I sold 3 vehicles almost 2 years ago to the date. All on craigslist. I don't have any information on the people who purchases them.
    Does anyone have experience with this?

    I haven't reported this on my paperwork yet. I don't know how to go about it since I have no info and if there is a signifigant purpose for doing so.

    any input is helpfull

  • #2
    The Trustee is going to dig on this topic. First, you must disclose that you transferred property within 2 years of fling. This is because the Statement of Financial Affairs (SoFA) requires this in Question #18 ("Within 2 years before you filed for bankruptcy, did you sell, trade, or otherwise transfer any property to anyone...").

    The purpose is to make sure that a.) you didn't transfer property so that your creditors could not levy the property, b.) that you didn't transfer it to hide it from the Trustee, or c.) other fraudulent reasons (outright fraud). The Trustee is also tasked with making sure you receive the appropriate value for that same property. Some debtors believe that they can do their own bankruptcy "pre-planning" by selling a car to a friend for $100 when the car is worth $10,000. They usually have the friend promise to sell it back later. That's outright fraud. The only way that the Trustee can insure that this was an arms-length transaction or that the property was transferred for an appropriate value, is to know the details of that transaction.

    Don't you have a copy of the bill of sale? Did you even provide a bill of sale? Did you transfer the title? You will need to find documentation of this in case the Trustee decides to dig into the transaction(s).
    Chapter 7 (No Asset/Non-Consumer) Filed (Pro Se) 7/08 (converted from Chapter 13 - 2/10)
    Status: (Auto) Discharged and Closed! 5/10
    Visit My BKForum Blog: justbroke's Blog


    I am not an attorney. Any advice provided is not legal advice.

    Comment


    • #3
      They were all 90s vehicles and they were sold at or just under the kbb value. So nothing fishy about that. No at the time all we were required to do in our state is sign the back of the title when sold. So I have no verification of this unless they check personal property records and get the vehicle info and search it for the new owner. All the transactions were legit transactions done in late 2015 and early 2016. I didn't even consider bankruptcy until last month.

      I did give my info to my lawyer. Otherwse I have nothing to give the trustee other then the details. I didn't keep info on strangers when I had no intentions to file bankruptcy or have anything further to do wth the vehicles.

      Comment


      • #4
        I also didn't realize we needed to go further then 6months worth of income and expenses.

        I had to notate I received foodstamps in the last 3 years and that my husband received a workmans comp settlement in the previous 3 years, almost $8k
        does anyone know the purpose of the prior 3 years and what impact these will have to do wth my chapter 7 bankruptcy

        Comment


        • #5
          If they were sold for near the actual value, then don't worry. The Trustee is sure to ask and maybe probe a little at the 341 Meeting (with some questions), but I don't think they'll be overly concerned with 20+ year old vehicles unless they were "classics" so be careful how you answer questions.

          I thought it was two years, but regardless of the required number of years, a bankruptcy is about disclosure of all sources of income and financial dealings. The Statement of Financial Affairs asks for things which most of us don't need to address, but includes things like income in the last two years, gifts, business, ownership related questions, banking accounts that were opened and/or closed, and a host of other financial questions. It is simply to give the Trustee and the creditors a financial view of the debtor.

          Most of those things do not affect anything with the bankruptcy. The Trustee uses it as a tool to very information, learn about lawsuits, and/or to recover property on behalf of the bankruptcy estate. In 95% of the cases, what's on that form doesn't go any further than the paper on which it is written.
          Chapter 7 (No Asset/Non-Consumer) Filed (Pro Se) 7/08 (converted from Chapter 13 - 2/10)
          Status: (Auto) Discharged and Closed! 5/10
          Visit My BKForum Blog: justbroke's Blog


          I am not an attorney. Any advice provided is not legal advice.

          Comment


          • #6
            the vehicles defnetly weren't classcs. Old ugly beaters lol I thought I read two years while researching as well. They said last three years when I asked. :/
            I actually downloaded the forms to act as if I was doing them just to see if there was anything I was missing and needed to make my lawyer aware of. glad I did because I was caught off guard on what I thought I needed vrs what I needed. Considering my lawyer will probably be filing in the next two weeks I definetly want it to be accurate.Although my lawyer and his paralegal are probably irritated with me after updating my info I left out unintentionally.

            thank you!

            Comment


            • #7
              I am just one of those people who go over everything x3 lol. Trying to make it right.

              I actually successfully did a oic with the IRS pro se. I turned 10.000 into 1400.00. it was alot. So I didn't even want to attempt bankruptcy pro se.

              Comment


              • #8
                It's good to be thorough. Honestly... honesty is the best policy in bankruptcy.
                Chapter 7 (No Asset/Non-Consumer) Filed (Pro Se) 7/08 (converted from Chapter 13 - 2/10)
                Status: (Auto) Discharged and Closed! 5/10
                Visit My BKForum Blog: justbroke's Blog


                I am not an attorney. Any advice provided is not legal advice.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by justbroke View Post
                  The Trustee is going to dig on this topic. First, you must disclose that you transferred property within 2 years of fling. This is because the Statement of Financial Affairs (SoFA) requires this in Question #18 ("Within 2 years before you filed for bankruptcy, did you sell, trade, or otherwise transfer any property to anyone...").

                  The purpose is to make sure that a.) you didn't transfer property so that your creditors could not levy the property, b.) that you didn't transfer it to hide it from the Trustee, or c.) other fraudulent reasons (outright fraud). The Trustee is also tasked with making sure you receive the appropriate value for that same property. Some debtors believe that they can do their own bankruptcy "pre-planning" by selling a car to a friend for $100 when the car is worth $10,000. They usually have the friend promise to sell it back later. That's outright fraud. The only way that the Trustee can insure that this was an arms-length transaction or that the property was transferred for an appropriate value, is to know the details of that transaction.

                  Don't you have a copy of the bill of sale? Did you even provide a bill of sale? Did you transfer the title? You will need to find documentation of this in case the Trustee decides to dig into the transaction(s).
                  Sorry to kind of hijack this thread, I didn't want to make a new one just for a question.

                  Justbroke I have a question, before I moved to AZ from NY I sold a couple of my rifles to a gun store back in NY, and even here in Arizona I purchased several firearms, used em for months and traded them in towards something else at gun stores etc. Does this mean I will have to track down and get all the paperwork from all the different gun stores to show I traded them in and received credit towards the new firearms? Like an idiot I don't know where, or maybe I threw out the paperwork for those transactions. I literally bought and traded in 5 different hand guns in the past 10 months.

                  Another thing is I sold my Trek mountain bike through the letgo app for cash, no receipts nothing...and that was a $500 bike when I bought it around 8 months ago.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Certain things you need to keep track of. The Trustee isn't going to care about inexpensive items but if you sold a lot of things then they may want to know. I might personally disclose anything $500 or over. An attorney may advise a higher figure. I would personally listed firearms, but a trade is not a sale (although it has all the fixings of a sale). At least that is how I think of it.
                    Chapter 7 (No Asset/Non-Consumer) Filed (Pro Se) 7/08 (converted from Chapter 13 - 2/10)
                    Status: (Auto) Discharged and Closed! 5/10
                    Visit My BKForum Blog: justbroke's Blog


                    I am not an attorney. Any advice provided is not legal advice.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by justbroke View Post
                      Certain things you need to keep track of. The Trustee isn't going to care about inexpensive items but if you sold a lot of things then they may want to know. I might personally disclose anything $500 or over. An attorney may advise a higher figure. I would personally listed firearms, but a trade is not a sale (although it has all the fixings of a sale). At least that is how I think of it.
                      Thanks bud. Yeah pretty much all of these trades I lost around $150-200 on each deal. The bike I sold for $300. The rifles back in NY sold for $800 for the pair ($450each).

                      Comment

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