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Do you think the jobs would return if there were a virtual moratorium on immigration?

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  • #46
    I'm not certain it will not be as great as the 1930's depression for those of us who are older. There are too many who are over 50 who are unable to find jobs. I've been out of work for so long and at almost 58, it is very disheartening. Too young for social security but unable to find work.

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    • #47
      Originally posted by discouraged View Post
      I'm not certain it will not be as great as the 1930's depression for those of us who are older. There are too many who are over 50 who are unable to find jobs. I've been out of work for so long and at almost 58, it is very disheartening. Too young for social security but unable to find work.

      True and I am sorry to hear. I try to spend as much money stateside and local as I possibly can for reasons like this. Can't do it alone though and many of our fellow Americans are still in denial.

      The reason however I feel it won't be as bad as the depression is the fact you replied to my post. You still have electricity, I imagine you are eating even though it maybe UE insurance, welfare, food stamps, etc.

      In the 1930's folks pretty much worked, went to a soup kitchen or died. Those were the choices of that time. We at least have an adequate social safety net compared to the 30's.

      I truly wish however it was much better where so many folks didn't have to rely on it.

      Good luck
      The essence of freedom is the proper limitation of Government

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      • #48
        Originally posted by banca rotta View Post

        The reason however I feel it won't be as bad as the depression is the fact you replied to my post. You still have electricity, I imagine you are eating even though it maybe UE insurance, welfare, food stamps, etc.
        This is something I remind myself of from time to time. When I was younger I spent quite a bit of time traveling around this globe we inhabit, including much time in places like Turkey and India. While the USA is by no means a perfect place there are many human beings much worse off than us. Even in BK I still have a roof over my head, food to eat, clothes to wear, clean air, clean water. Not everyone in the world has that.

        Part of the issue is expectations. We have been taught in the USA to always strive, always look up, always be better. So when we "fall behind" it feels devastating. Yet the employment rate in Spain is 21% and among people between 20-30 it's more than a third. In some countries the real unemployment rate is 50%.

        So just how "tough" the economic situation is in America is relative. In absolute terms things are OK. My greatest fear for our country right now is in the panic to deal with all the short-term issues we face we destroy the bedrock of what has made this country great. At a collective level this isn't the time to panic but to refocus our priorities and get back to work.
        Filed Chapter 7 non-consumer as a pro se. *Discharged* October 2011.

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        • #49
          Originally posted by ttg1 View Post
          This is something I remind myself of from time to time. When I was younger I spent quite a bit of time traveling around this globe we inhabit, including much time in places like Turkey and India. While the USA is by no means a perfect place there are many human beings much worse off than us. Even in BK I still have a roof over my head, food to eat, clothes to wear, clean air, clean water. Not everyone in the world has that.

          This may be so, but we learned by our mistakes and did something about it. Unfortunately, our government has dumbed down the general younger population to expect an easy life without much effort (work).

          Part of the issue is expectations. We have been taught in the USA to always strive, always look up, always be better. So when we "fall behind" it feels devastating. Yet the employment rate in Spain is 21% and among people between 20-30 it's more than a third. In some countries the real unemployment rate is 50%.

          This is not bad. We should have those expectations but we also have to remember to work for those expectation.

          So just how "tough" the economic situation is in America is relative. In absolute terms things are OK. My greatest fear for our country right now is in the panic to deal with all the short-term issues we face we destroy the bedrock of what has made this country great. At a collective level this isn't the time to panic but to refocus our priorities and get back to work.

          You can't get back to work if the jobs do not exist. I believe it is far more dire than the government co-opted media is telling us. The vast amount of empty houses around our area give me thought as to your remark that at least we have electric, etc. Not everyone is as fortunate at this. They don't have their houses, electric and I've seen many put out onto the sidewalk. Things are not as well as we are being told.


          I have returned to my brothers in TN for a time to work for him a bit. Upon arrival I noted five new vacancies in houses since I left a month ago. So, where are these people now? Under a bridge, in a shelter, at family, or renting. Well if they are renting perhaps they would not have lost the house. The jobs are drying up. You can't just throw money at a problem. This is the only thing our politicians think, that a problem can be solved by throwing money at it. What has happened to the first "Stimulus"? Nothing but inflation, that's what.

          'Hub
          If I knew it all, would I be here?? Hang in there = Retained attorney 8-06, Filed 12-28-07, Discharge 8-13-08, Finally CLOSED 11-3-09, 3-31-10 AP Dismissed, Informed by incompetent lawyer of CLOSED status, October 14, 2010.

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          • #50
            Originally posted by shark66 View Post

            There are several different problems that you're trying to cram under one solution:

            a) Millions of jobs have been physically moved (outsourced) outside of U.S. and will NOT come back unless we accept to work for the same amount of money as people in Asia do. I doubt that anyone on this forum would appreciate that kind of a paycheck.

            b) American workers - when compared to their European or Asian counterparts - are usually more demanding while offering less. There is a reason that the very best folks in anti-virus world are Russians. Had you ever attended a class at any of their universities you'd understand why. That is also the main reason why Berlin wall was taken down...to bring down (in the long run) the price of labor in the U.S. Technology helped in making this happen faster. I'm *not* Russian, BTW.


            c) There will never be an end to the problem discussed above until the U.S. education system vastly improves. I don't see that happening anytime soon, not within our lifetimes at the very least.

            d) I'm in a different part of the same industry that you belong to, and will state the following: times have changed. Learn to adapt. I came to this country on one of those *horrible* visas when Clinton was President, after working for the same Fortune 10 company in two European countries. They paid a pretty penny to get my butt in here because they needed me at that moment, and make no mistake - I was paid as much as my American counterparts working on the same or similar projects. Fast forward a couple of years, and my own job got outsourced someplace else. I found myself within the industry that I knew nothing of, but which promised excellent benefits and a solid paycheck. Took me about three or four years to get where I wanted to be, but it was well-worth it in my opinion.

            We are expendable. Every single one of us.

            Cops are not. Firemen are not. Soldiers are not. I'm sure you're getting my drift. But all of them will be made to work for less by high unemployment.

            You, me and the rest of "technical intelligentsia" are dime a dozen in the eyes of prospective employers.

            Learn a trade or two. You might end up needing them.

            This particular environment was created on purpose. And we're far from having seen the worst of it.

            You'll never get Congress, Senate or White House to protect your job. Regardless of administration in charge.

            All of them have been bought and paid for a long time ago, save for maybe a couple of principled hotheads such as Kucinich and Paul.

            By the banksters and their friends.

            I need eleven more years which I may or may not get where I am - don't know where you are and how far you may be from retirement. Ready to jump ships and shift gears once again, if needed, for the umpteenth time in my life.

            May none of us have to do that. But may we be prepared should the need arise.

            My $0.02 only.

            Good luck to us all.
            Very well said!

            The only thing I disagree with is about the jobs which have been exported to Asia. I think we should try to get them back here. We would have to do it gradually over time, but we should look at the main things which made these jobs flee to Asia and try to correct this situation.

            Their wages are cheap, yes, but those are not the only reasons companies moved their manufacturing jobs to Asia. environmental laws, labor laws, energy costs, "free" trade policies, and government red tape had a lot to do with it as well. We should attempt to make the necessary changes to get as many of these jobs back as possible. It won't be easy. It won't be quick. But it would be worth it in the end.

            Our trade deficit exists because we are spending more than we make as a nation. We can't continue to import more than we export forever. We have to turn this around somehow.

            I install a lot of lighting in customers' homes and businesses, and I have noticed the absolutely terrible quality of light fixtures and bulbs coming from China. I know we used to make better fixtures and bulbs when they were made here. I know this because I used to install them. We may not be able to compete with China in terms of cheap labor, but maybe we could compete in terms of quality.
            The world's simplest C & D Letter:
            "I demand that you cease and desist from any communication with me."
            Notice that I never actually mention or acknowledge the debt in my letter.

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            • #51
              I agree with you all EXCEPT AMerican workers are FAR less demanding than their European counterparts - of course they have..."false consciousness" and dare not think that they deserve decent wages, vacations, etc!

              Originally posted by GoingDown View Post
              Very well said!

              The only thing I disagree with is about the jobs which have been exported to Asia. I think we should try to get them back here. We would have to do it gradually over time, but we should look at the main things which made these jobs flee to Asia and try to correct this situation.

              Their wages are cheap, yes, but those are not the only reasons companies moved their manufacturing jobs to Asia. environmental laws, labor laws, energy costs, "free" trade policies, and government red tape had a lot to do with it as well. We should attempt to make the necessary changes to get as many of these jobs back as possible. It won't be easy. It won't be quick. But it would be worth it in the end.

              Our trade deficit exists because we are spending more than we make as a nation. We can't continue to import more than we export forever. We have to turn this around somehow.

              I install a lot of lighting in customers' homes and businesses, and I have noticed the absolutely terrible quality of light fixtures and bulbs coming from China. I know we used to make better fixtures and bulbs when they were made here. I know this because I used to install them. We may not be able to compete with China in terms of cheap labor, but maybe we could compete in terms of quality.

              Comment

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