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New to this forum and Chapter 7-Nervous about chances of an AP

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  • #16
    Originally posted by mmeier79 View Post
    Glad you asked this question as it had occurred to me as well. Are there any statistics on how common an objection actually is in a consumer bankruptcy and for who files them? I would imagine they are much more common in a corporate bankruptcy where there are a lot of assets and a lot of creditors.
    I always use the numbers as follows. About 95% of Chapter 7 cases breeze right through without any issues or controversies. The other 5% have miscellaneous issues. An objection to discharge is more common with the United States Trustee (UST) than with the creditors. Of that 5% with miscellaneous issues, I would say that only about 25% have creditors that are seeking to disallow the discharge of the creditor's specific debt.

    It just looks obvious when there is a debtor that falls into this category.

    It's just so uncommon that you would know if a debtor has that issue. The debtor with that issue is one that took lots of money (think thousands) of dollars in cash advances. Performed series of balance transfers to hide the money (float). Didn't make payments or quickly defaulted on payments (within a month or two of obtaining large BTs or cash advances). Other indicia of fraud (lied about income, used credit/money/assets for prohibited purposes, etc). Even given the "indicia" of fraud, it's hard to prove fraud in many cases. That doesn't stop a creditor from "threatening" to file an adversary proceeding. A good debtor attorney will weigh the evidence and advice their client on whether to settle, ignore the creditor, or fight.

    Corporations are people too. ;) However, there are some unique attributes...

    In a "corporate" (non-individual) Chapter 7 bankruptcy, there's nothing to really object to. The business entity will die (cease operations) and there would be no company (entity) to pursue. In that case, objecting to the discharge of a "corporate" debtor in a Chapter 7 is non-existent (because businesses never receive a discharge in a Chapter 7 as it's entirely a liquidation).

    A corporation could file a Chapter 11 Reorganization which is not too unlike a Chapter 13. The process, however, is much much much more complex and discharge typically comes a lot faster than Chapter 13s. (In Chapter 11 individual cases, the discharge is not as quick and it behaves more like a "complex" Chapter 13.) For an example of how a corporate Chapter 11 Reorganization works, look no further than GM's Chapter 11 bankruptcy. They exited bankruptcy (received their discharge) in about 40 days from filing. But they put in a lot of work prior to that happening in order to structure the new company and to appease all creditors -- that made a difference on the creditor's committee or an impaired class -- in advance of that filing. In very large corporate Chapter 11s, the goal is to obtain financing, work with creditors on re-aging/re-amortizing balances, flat out principal reductions, and have a strategy to exit as quickly as possible. (Not all of their creditors are so lucky as some will likely get nothing and the debt discharged.)
    Chapter 7 (No Asset/Non-Consumer) Filed (Pro Se) 7/08 (converted from Chapter 13 - 2/10)
    Status: (Auto) Discharged and Closed! 5/10
    Visit My BKForum Blog: justbroke's Blog

    I am not an attorney. Any advice provided is not legal advice.


    • #17
      OP, the reason I asked is because I was thinking of your miter saw. See? Really, worst case sounds to me like you'd be stuck with your bill for your miter saw. (This is not going to happen!)

      Regular folks like us who have just been trying to get by, day by day, thinking "it's going to get better" or "I'll do what I have to do now and figure it out later" etc etc......... This is the norm. I'd say we fall in that 95% ~ wouldn't you? Think about what a mess people's finances must seriously look like by the time they get to this point. I think it would be weird if they hadn't been juggling things around like a clown in the circus. But we're not talking intentional, and we're not talking thousands and thousands of dollars.

      One story I read here that made me feel better ~ and maybe he'll chime in if he's still around ~ was a guy who had a problem with gambling. He had taken out balance transfer after balance transfer, gambling money away, thinking one day he was going to recover what he'd lost. As far as I know, his Chapter 7 went through smoothly. I'm sure someone will correct me if I'm wrong. But these amounts were BIG. Your miter saw and my multiple trips through the drive-through at Wendy's last summer are absolutely nothing compared to a case like that. But he did it. And we can, too. Hang in there!


      • #18
        It makes me feel better to read through what other people have experienced and managed to survive. It almost raises the question of how bad somebody has to screw up to make a credit card company take action. It seems like it requires massive purchases of clearly luxury items within that 90 day window prior to filing. Like dropping down to Best Buy and charging 4 grand on your Visa the week before filing. I am sure people do these things but an attorney is going to look at all your documentation and see that purchase. I would think most attorneys would tell you to wait out that 90 days to be safe. I guess some people cant wait, or don't take the advice of their attorney seriously or don't have an attorney at all.

        I don't think it is likely I will have any trouble given what others have said. Never taken a cash advance or transferred a balance-those seem to be problem areas. Somehow I don't think my binge on the X-Box live store back in November is going to be to big a deal. lol.


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