Forum Rules (Everyone Must Read!!!) (updated: 04/28/2015)

Welcome to the Bankruptcy Forum. Bankruptcy (BK) Forum is known as and will be referred to as BKF hereinafter. In order to ensure a long term success of our vibrant community, we have established certain rules and guidelines to which everyone must adhere to. Please take your time to carefully read our rules, before you start to participate in the community.

Things you agree to do: (BKF) users agree to use the search function before starting a new thread. This prevents duplicate discussions and allows for better organized topics.

All BKF users agree to read the sticky posts which may be available at the top of a forum page. These Sticky posts often contain valuable information. They may also outline more rules and guidelines specific for that particular forum, stickies are put in place by that forums moderator(s) or admin(s).

Things you agree not to do:

All BKF users agree not to call people names or write a post simply to make a personal attack, or get a negative reaction; this behavior is not allowed on our forum. The use of derogatory language aimed at anyone will be severely dealt with. There is no need to agree with each other, or to even like each other. However, by signing onto you agree to treat each member and guest with the respect they deserve. No threats or personal attacks will be allowed.

All BKF users agree not to discuss, engage, or encourage any behavior or activity which violates the law. Discussion of drugs, violence, murder, theft, vandalism, fraud or any other issue which could be used to help individuals break the law is strictly forbidden.

All BKF users agree not to "bump" old threads, unless there is a specific benefit to the community by doing so. But in most cases, please don't post in very old threads, instead start new threads.

All BKF users agree not to attempt/use another members account. It is against BKF rules to use any account other than your own. Impersonating another member will result in an immediate ban. It is also against the rules to open more than one account in your own name without permission from a moderator or administrator. If you have been banned for any reason, it is against the rules to open another account. If you were banned temporarily and you are caught using another account you will be banned permanently. Choosing a moniker which is similar in either sound or spelling as a moderator or administrator is strictly forbidden.

All BKF users agree not to private message any moderator, admin, or other member with questions related to their personal circumstances (Questions about the forum or issues with the forum are ok). This forum only works when members share their experience and insights with everyone.

Things you agree not to post:
All BKF users agree not to post any derogatory/racist/or sexist remarks. This includes attachments, links and all information contained within posts, signatures, and avatars, failure to comply with this rule will result in a permanent ban.

All BKF users agree not to post any copyrighted or trademarked information without the express written permission of the owner(s) / proper citation of source.

All BKF users agree not to post any real names, addresses, telephone numbers, email addresses, social security numbers, or any other personal details (their own or other people's).

All BKF users agree not to post links, pictures, attachments, videos, or the like of pornographic content, objectionable material or extreme violence, whether cartoon or real.

All BKF users agree not to use BKF for advertising purposes without a written contract between yourself/company/agent and the administration of BKF. Blatant advertising will result in a ban.

All BKF users agree not to spam the forums. Spam includes but is not limited to posting erroneous, non-relevant-useless, off-topic, or meaningless posts. Spam may also include posts which contain no text, or large areas of blank space between lines. Simply posting emoticons without text is considered spam. BKF is the largest bankruptcy message board and all the content is intended to help other users. Please help us improve the quality of our forum by making sure that your posts are well-worded, spell checked, grammatically correct and syntaxed.

Regarding actions of moderators and administrators:

The forum is no place to air out your opinion or be judgmental of our staff and its capabilities.

All BKF users agree not to abuse or mistreat moderators or administrators. It is against BKF rules to post any information regarding bans or any other action taken by a member of the moderating or administrative team. If you wish to discuss bans or warnings please do so via PM. To place a complaint against a moderator, send a PM to a super moderator. All Moderators are equal, any decision made by a moderator must be adhered to. If a moderator tells you something you do not like, do not go to another moderator looking for a different answer. If you are caught doing this you will be banned. The moderators work as a team and respect the decisions made by their peers and will help enforce them unless an administrator tells them differently.
If you have an issue with how the forum is run, then notify one of our administrator and we will look into the situation. We have in the past and still do appreciate any input that you offer this forum. But critical input and/or judgmental postings towards the staff will result in you getting banned.

Should you find a thread offensive or out of line, then notify a Mod in a PM so they can evaluate the situation and do the action deemed necessary.

All moderators do have active "other" lives outside of the forum and help moderate this forum in their spare time throughout the days and weeks.

If you have a problem with a member or Mod follow the proper channels of reporting it.

BKF reserves the right to delete any posts which contain anti-BKF comments or discussion. Any bashing of moderators or administrators, or any of their discussion or actions will also be deleted, and the responsible posting party(s) will be banned. Any public anti-BKF advertising, communication, or posts on another forum will result in permanent bans as well.

All warnings and bans are decided by individual moderators and administrators. Warnings are preferable to bans however, for serious offenses and repeat abusers bans will go into effect. The length of the bans can vary from several hours to permanent.

All messages posted or sent including through PM are the property of

All BKF users agree not to advertiser on the forum (Niether by posting, private messaging or using your signature). If you are a company/attorney/legal adviser wishing to advertise on the site or sell a product, you must contact the head administrator and inquire about our advertising packages.

All bankruptcy related opinions expressed on are those of their authors and not necessarily of BKF, its staff or representatives.

You agree not to copy any material/post/content from BKF without written permission from our head administrator .

By posting on this forum you agree to these terms and conditions, including any punishment deemed appropriate by moderators or administrators in the event of an offense.

Administrators/Moderators can change these rules at any time without prior notice.
See more
See less

It's Complicated...

  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • It's Complicated...

    Just joined this site this evening. I'm a single father of a teenage son with primary custody. We live in Phoenix. I'm almost a year into my Chapter 13 case and now dealing with a complex set of issues and have a number of questions.

    First, I'll tell you what led me to file BK in the first place.

    In June of 2016, I hired a "debt settlement company" to help me negotiate with my unsecured creditors. At the time I had something like 6 credit cards and a personal unsecured loan enrolled in the plan. One of the credit cards was settled for 50% of what was owed. After Thanksgiving, I hired a family law attorney to get custody of my son, which took about 4 months and cost me about $16K in fees (I used an IRA to pay the lawyer).

    The morning after Christmas (2016), I answered the door to a process server who handed me a lawsuit from Discover Card. I was surprised because the debt settlement firm worked out a settlement agreement, but unfortunately, it was after the lawsuit had already been filed. I was able to use that settlement agreement to obtain a stipulated judgment and I began making payments on that. In March of 2017, my house needed a new roof. That cost me $7K. By that point, my entire IRA account was wiped out, and I still owed a little over $3K to my family lawyer at the end of the case. But I did get what I wanted. My son will be with me until he turns 18.

    I retained a bankruptcy lawyer and filed chapter 13 on 4/27/17. I had wanted to file under chapter 7, but my $72K/year gross income was about $14K above the median, so I was entered into a 5-year repayment plan at $500 per month. My family lawyer wrote off the $3K balance I owed him since it was the same law firm. My chapter 13 plan was confirmed on 10/30/17.


    On November 1st, my employer changed my compensation from straight salary to a base-plus-commission structure, where I now make around $56K per year on average. Some months it's about $4400 (gross), other months around $4900. In exchange for my agreeing to this new compensation plan, my employer waived the $6K I owed them in "unpaid compensation" I earned over 2016-17. The median income in AZ for a family of 2 is about $58,400 as of April 1, 2017, but I'm aware that's increased to $60K as of October 1, 2017.

    Several months after having my roof replaced, I discovered mold growing in my drywall, ceilings, and attic. I obtained some estimates for mold remediation and restoration work. That's going to cost me around $4K. I spoke with my BK lawyer on the phone and told him I want a 4-month moratorium on plan payments so that I can afford to get the mold remediation project started.

    After all the work is done, I told my lawyer that I want to sell my house and move because we're enrolling my son in vocational school in Surprise starting in August, and don't want to get stuck commuting over a long distance for the next 2 years.


    Here are my questions:

    When converting from a chapter 13 to a chapter 7, does the means test apply in Arizona? If so, does the court use the means test in effect on my original filing date or the date of conversion?

    Does the court look at my income over the six months before the conversion date or the 6 months before the original filing date?

    Would I be better off voluntarily dismissing my chapter 13 and then filing a brand new chapter 7 case instead? I've heard of that strategy being taken.

    I'm going to be paying the contractor using cash from my income and savings account and have already stopped paying the Trustee because my attorney is going to be filing the motion for a moratorium. Do I need court permission to get the renovation work done? It's supposed to start next month. I am not using any form of credit, just cash.

    My goal is to convert to chapter 7, get my discharge, and then after the case is closed, put my house up for sale. My equity is less than the homestead exemption, so I can't see the new trustee taking my house. My lawyer told me that if I sell my house during the bankruptcy case, I would have to reinvest the proceeds in a new homestead within 18 months. I don't want to buy another house, which is why I want to sell it after my case is over.

    Thanks for your time.

  • #2
    If your goal is to get a Chap 7 discharge, why bother requesting a payment moratorium? It sounds like you need to sit down with your attorney and go over all of your options. It may be best to just let your Chap 13 be dismissed and file a new Chap 7. Your attorney is the best person to advise you on what is your best course of action.

    Based on my quick research, the only cases on whether the means test is required for conversion in the 9th circuit are district court decisions in Washington and Oregon, both ruling a means test is required. But, other courts do not have to follow those rulings. despritfreya might be able to give some insight on practices in AZ.
    LadyInTheRed is in the black!
    Filed Chap 13 April 2010. Discharged May 2015.
    $143,000 in debt discharged for $36,500, including attorneys fees. Money well spent!


    • #3
      I take the position with my clients that if they did not "qualify" when the case was filed conversion is not the way to go. I am sure it can be done but I have never tried it as litigating the issue will be too costly. Typically, I suggest dismissing, waiting to make sure one "qualifies" and then file a new case. You then have to get the Automatic Stay extended beyond 30 days (if the new case is filed within one year of the dismissal). I have never had a problem with getting the Stay extended and have always told the Court exactly why the first case was dismissed and the new 7 was filed.

      Please note that there are issues with dismissing the 13. For example, if the 13 was paying a vehicle lender, upon dismissal that lender is going to repo the vehicle. Jay, you need to make sure you understand ALL of the ramifications of dismissing the 13. Sit down with the attorney and go over your options.



      Unconfigured Ad Widget