Is this Ethical/Legal?

[Oliver]

If someone were planning to file CH-13 several weeks from now and in the interim had an unexpected medical expense (surgery or some other unforseen expense). Is it unethical 'not' to tell the attending doctor and or hospital that you will be soon filing for BK and that his services might be included in a CH-13 payment plan?

[tinroofrusted]

Yes, and you can go to jail for this sort of behavior too.

[robivi3]

Health first. Necessity is necessity. Personally, I wouldn't tell them. Get the advice of an Attorney, but health first.

[HHM]

Yeah, health first. If the debt was incurred within 60 days of filing BK, the doctor may have more recourse and might be able to make a priority claim in your chapter 13, and thereby get paid something. I suppose it depends on what the surgerty is for.?

I probably wouldn't tell them. Afterall, you haven't filed BK yet, and who knows, you may change your mind.

This is a cost of business for Dr.'s, and many larger practices have insurance in the event of non-payment on larger bills.

[robivi3]

Of all the things tolerated in this Country... I seriously doubt any prosecutor would pursue such a case unless he just hated his career and his wallet. Prosecutors get promotions based on convictions, cases have juries. Juries are regular folks and no jury would send you to jail for that and no prosecutor would even bother to consider the case even if it were illegal.

Take care of your health, don't tell the doctor. tell the Trustee the truth, he won't bat an eye and won't even make a derogatory comment unless he had less sense than God gave a cucumber. Like HHM said, he may simply lean toward helping the doctor. It is NEVER unethical to save your life or to maintain your health so that you can work and be useful.

Get your surgery and be healthy and don't fret one more minute on the issue.

[Oliver]

Wow, this is all great feedback. Thank you all for your earnest replies.

Suppose one were to file BK-13 and then 'after the fact' had a similar unplanned for expense. (1) Would it be considered a 'preferential payment' to the doctor or medical facility to fully pay for his services versus including that in your plan? (2) What if these services were being paid for with a credit card that you had already included in your plan? Would these assumptions change the legality OR ethical nature of this case?

--- I am assuming here that these hypothetical medical expenses are legitimate unplanned medical expenses and NOT for something like cosmetic surgery. ----

[HHM]

There are really too many factors to give you an definitive answer concerning your "hypothetical". If the debt arised post-petition (i.e. after you file BK), you may be able to amend your plan and because it was a post petition debt, it would get paid as a priority, even over secured debt. If you pay for it with a credit card, you are treading thin ice in BK. It can be considered a fraudulent act and thereby your credit card debt would not be discharged, meaning you would have to pay them 100%.

Whether any of these options is good or bad really depends on the overall purpose of your chapter 13 and what debts must be included.

[Oliver]

I see your point HHH regarding 'post-petition' . Okay, let me get a little more speicific What is your opinion (or others) regarding this scenario:

June 1, 2005:
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Mary Jane meets with attorney Smith. Attourney Smith informs Mary Jane to he will file BK-13 on August 1, 2005


July 1, 2005:
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Mary Jane falls and breaks hip which requires surgery and immediate medical care. Mary Jane is worried that she does not have enough money to pay both the hospital bill and medical bills and does not have adequit insurance to cover all the bills. Mary Jane wants to do the 'right thing', and would like to pay both the hospital and doctor if at all possible. After her doctor visit, the receptionist asks for full payment for medical service rendered that day. Mary Jane does not have the money but 'could' pay for it on a credit card.

Q: Since Mary Jane has already met with her attourney and is definitely planning to file August 1, 2005, is paying for this service using a credit card is illegal/unethical.

Or is it unethical for her to accept these services knowing full well she would not be able to pay for it at the time of service (as indicated in physicians payment policy which Mary had signed. !-- Remember, Mary wants to do the right thing --!