met w/ 2 lawyers, ? about land and cc

[goingunder]

we have met with 2 lawyers and still have questions. we are in missouri, with 4 kids. currently about 2 months behind on almost everything. both lawyers thought chap 7 would be good for us. however we are doing our taxes right now to get a definate income. hubby is a trucker, so hard to estimate. as soon as we get the tax papers back we are filing, probably next week. we are surrendering our mobile home, but would like to keep our 5 acres to move another mobile home here after they come get this one. lawyer thinks this will work, the land is worth about $5000.00. any thoughts? i am also worried because we paid one of hubbys sisters $1000.00 back in may (bought some dogs for my hobby kennel i had at the time). and we sold the kennel to his other sister in august for $2500.00 in august. but she still owes us $2000.00 on that deal. from what ive read here, i can see them being dragged into this very easily. any way to avoid this? i did have to list all this on my taxes, due to income vs. expence on my hobby kennel. what a mess. maybe since the sisters have different last names they wont think its an inside deal. which its not, everything was of fair market value. its amazing how crooked innocent things can look when you are trying to see what the trustee will look for. any ideas about this? maybe i just worry too much? also, hubby has 2 cc he has been using for his fuel and repairs on the semi. 1 is up to 9400.00 the other is up to 4500.00. i think it is all from this year! truck broke down and the rest is fuel. we were trying to get them caught back up, but it never happened. they were both being used within the last month. so do we try to discharge them or reaffirm them or what? naturally we would like to let them go, but we dont want our case discharges over them. so do we even try? i know it looks bad, but we really hoped things would get better and we would be ok. there is only 1 cash advance on there for $100.00 . the rest is fuel and repairs for the semi. one more thing, the company who financed our mobile home has called and left a message wanting to see if THEIR PROPERTY HAS BEEN VACATED? what is up with this? we are only 2 months behind. when will we have to move? can they move this quickly or was it just a scare tactic? thanks so much everyone, i appreciate any and all advice. oh we did find out hubby was listed as an owner on father in laws bank accounts, he had us removed this week. and he closed the accounts. we NEVER used them and didnt even know we were listed as an owner until lawyer told us to check . we thought we were just authorized users. now how bad is this going to look? i hope i just worry too much

[lrprn]

Let's see if we can sort out all your questions....and a gentle request...the next time you post, can you please throw a few capitals and paragraphs in? This was tough to read.

we have met with 2 lawyers and still have questions. we are in missouri, with 4 kids. currently about 2 months behind on almost everything. both lawyers thought chap 7 would be good for us. however we are doing our taxes right now to get a definate income. hubby is a trucker, so hard to estimate. as soon as we get the tax papers back we are filing, probably next week. we are surrendering our mobile home, but would like to keep our 5 acres to move another mobile home here after they come get this one. lawyer thinks this will work, the land is worth about $5000.00. any thoughts?

So you own 5 acres of land that you want to keep, but are surrendering the mobile home that currently sits on the acres, correct?

i am also worried because we paid one of hubbys sisters $1000.00 back in may (bought some dogs for my hobby kennel i had at the time). and we sold the kennel to his other sister in august for $2500.00 in august. but she still owes us $2000.00 on that deal. from what ive read here, i can see them being dragged into this very easily. any way to avoid this?

Did you make a formal, written agreement with your sister-in-laws? Or were the deals "on a handshake" with nothing written down?

i did have to list all this on my taxes, due to income vs. expence on my hobby kennel. what a mess. maybe since the sisters have different last names they wont think its an inside deal. which its not, everything was of fair market value. its amazing how crooked innocent things can look when you are trying to see what the trustee will look for. any ideas about this?
maybe i just worry too much?

What did the lawyers you consulted say about this? Have you retained one yet?

also, hubby has 2 cc he has been using for his fuel and repairs on the semi. 1 is up to 9400.00 the other is up to 4500.00. i think it is all from this year!

Do you mean he charged these amounts since Jan 1, 2007??? If he did, then this will throw up all kinds of red flags if you file within the next 90 days.

truck broke down and the rest is fuel. we were trying to get them caught back up, but it never happened. they were both being used within the last month. so do we try to discharge them or reaffirm them or what? naturally we would like to let them go, but we dont want our case discharges over them. so do we even try? i know it looks bad, but we really hoped things would get better and we would be ok. there is only 1 cash advance on there for $100.00 . the rest is fuel and repairs for the semi.

For the two credit cards, it depends on when the charges were made. There should be no charges on the cards for 90 days before you file to shift the burden of proving the charges weren't fraudulent from you to the trustee. When did you do the cash advance?

one more thing, the company who financed our mobile home has called and left a message wanting to see if THEIR PROPERTY HAS BEEN VACATED? what is up with this? we are only 2 months behind. when will we have to move? can they move this quickly or was it just a scare tactic?

Since you are two months in arrears, this is likely not a scare tactic. Many mortgage companies start legal action after two months of non-payment. Unfortunately Missouri appears to be one of the shorter period foreclosure states - see http://www.realtytrac.com/foreclosur...State=Missouri

thanks so much everyone, i appreciate any and all advice. oh we did find out hubby was listed as an owner on father in laws bank accounts, he had us removed this week. and he closed the accounts. we NEVER used them and didnt even know we were listed as an owner until lawyer told us to check . we thought we were just authorized users. now how bad is this going to look? i hope i just worry too much

If you are filing next week, then having your father-in-law remove your husband from these accounts and close them looks very suspicious. I don't know how the trustee might find out about these accounts, but if he/she does, this could look like you are hiding assets. Another issue to discuss with the lawyer that you retain.

[goingunder]

Yes, we own the 5 acres, free and clear.
As far as the kennel, it was basically a hand shake deal. No paperwork or anything like that. Just my cancelled checks.
As for the cc issue, he uses them for his job as a truck driver. For fuel and repairs, so all the charges have been since Jan 06. Can we just reaffirm these? Or should we. We cant wait the 90 days.
And on the bank accounts of our father in laws, wouldnt they have to prove we used the accounts. We havent ever put money in there or taken any out. They were not ours. PLEASE HELP.
We havent done anything shady or fraudulant to try and hide anything, but it looks bad. What should we do? We havent retained a lawyer yet. We met with a couple and have one picked out. We finished our credit counciling class, and the lawyer gave us some paperwork to complete and return with $600.00. Then we pay the other $600 at signing.

[bige1030]

As for the cc issue, he uses them for his job as a truck driver. For fuel and repairs, so all the charges have been since Jan 06. Can we just reaffirm these? Or should we. We cant wait the 90 days.

The 90-day presumption of fraud is for charges incurred for luxury goods and services. I doubt it would arise in this case, but check with your lawyer on this.

And on the bank accounts of our father in laws, wouldnt they have to prove we used the accounts. We havent ever put money in there or taken any out. They were not ours. PLEASE HELP.

It's hard to prove that when your name is on an account or property, that it's really not yours. There was another post in the past few days about properties that someone's parents put in their name for inheritance purposes, but the trustee and the court have found otherwise. You will need to make sure your lawyer is a good one before relying on this.

[lrprn]

GoingUnder, I wish there were quick and easy answers to your questions, but there aren't. Missouri trustees and bankruptcy judges may interpret the credit card charges, non-contract family money exchanges for your business, and recently closed banking accounts several different ways depending on local custom and legal precedents. You could be home free, or you could have a problem, with any one of these.

The most reliable information you will get about what will or won't fly in your case is going to be from the bk lawyer you are planning to retain. He/she should be able to tell you how each of your issues is most likely to be viewed in your bankruptcy district.