need help for presumption of abuse

[novemberrain]

i filed bk on 5-18 and had the 341 meeting on 7-12. On 7-19 the trustee filed a presumption of abuse. i really think my lawyer messed up the means test. Since i filed i have been on disability. So since the bk filed for abuse my lawyer told me I can refile if I have the bk dismissed.
On the means test my lawyer put in my wage garnishment as a court ordered payment in line 28. He also put that we make 2 car payments and we dont. My hubby and I have 3 cars:01 ford, 86 p/u, and 76 el camino. We only have 1 car payment that is $375 a month and the other 2 we own. The other thing that was listed on the means test is the telecommunications (line 32). My lawyer told me this was for home phone, cell phone, internet and cable. At the 341 meeting the trustee told me different. The line 32 was to be only for cable.
Please someone let me know about the means test and if you have more than 1 vehicle how is it supposed to be listed on the means test. Also about line 32 the telecommunications what does that mean??? Is it just really for cable?
I have found this website very helpful and want to thank everybody for listening and for the great advice.

One more thing can i turn this into a chpt 13 instead of dismissal?

[SinkingFast]

Line 32 of the Means Test says,............

Other Necessary Expenses: telecommunication services. Enter the average monthly expenses that you actually pay for cell phones, pagers, call waiting, caller identification, special long distance or internet services necessary for the health and welfare of you or your dependents. Do not include any amount previously deducted.

You should be able to include everything you said, except Cable. If you're getting your internet service from the Cable company, you may have to deduct out the portion of your monthly bill that's for TV.

You can allow the case to be Dismissed, but that might not be the best thing. You'd have to wait 180 days to refile. And your Creditors will come back with a vengeance. Conversion is an option, but I'd personally only go for that as a last ditch effort to salvage the situation.

[novemberrain]

The thing about getting it dismissed is my son will be going to a private school and i wont be paying as much in childcare. Right now I pay $1130 a month. I am however still on disability until the middle of september. I have been on disability since 5-29. When the trustee did the means test himself it came out to about $216 of disposable income. That amount is something we can try to live with for the next 5 years. The other problem is that my dh has been working out of town and he makes about double the money when he does so that makes up for my lost wages from disability.
My lawyer told me that i could refile just as soon as the case gets dismissed but now I am wondering if that is even true. I think I need a new lawyer.

LINE 32 says .....pay for telecommunications other than
cell phones, pagers, call waiting, caller identification, special long distance or internet services necessary for the health and welfare of you or your dependents. Do not include any amount previously deducted.
i was told my lawyer and the trustee that the amount I first has was way too much. But it was the truth.

[JRScott]

Have you asked your lawyer if conversion to a Chapter 13 is possible?

That might be the best option. Really speaking if they dismiss your case as Sinking says you can't refile for 6 months. If they dismiss with prejudice you still have to wait 6 months and cannot relist certain debts.

I'd really consider the Chapter 13 if you can afford it.

[freshstart06]

novemberrain (beautiful user name)
I hate to say but from what you listed you guys have disposable income.
If your husband works out of town he makes up your income if you work
You son is in Private school (I don't know how well that sits with the trustee, Us trustee, or any judge, Please don't take this the wrong way but I don't think anyone active on this board can afford that)
You pay a lot in daycare while you are home (I know you don't want to lose your spot but the trustees are unreasonable, they don't care, consider part time)
your have three cars, you are only allowed two in chpt 7, your third will be assets

did you fire yor lawyer and get your money back??? He should have known better or recalculated your income so you could have passed the the means test (some are going to say this is fraud, but some lawyers are just good like that)

Your best bet is to convert to 13 because your lawyer told you wrong you will have to wait 6 months. If your situation gets worst then you can convert back to 7 if you really and truly can't handle 13, not sure on the wait on that.

Go and get your money back from that lawyer, was he new in the business. he should come and visit the board so he can learn a few things.

[novemberrain]

no the lawyer is not new in the business. i met with him in february and i felt really impressed with him. but now i am rethinking that.
my son is going to a private school because they have a daycare on site and it is full time school and i work full time. it is actually cheaper to put my son in private school than public. with tuition and daycare it is cheaper to put him in private. with a public school i would have to pay over $600 to put him in a daycare progam.
Out of the 3 cars we have i have the 01 ford and my dh uses the 86 p/u to go to and form work. the el camino just sits there just in case my dh truck does not make it.
my dh is a truck driver and he makes more money going out of town. for instance right now he is on a job that he will have to drive to TX and deliver the load somewhere up north in CA. He makes more money doing this because he gets paid by the mile and i think hourly. Now if he just does local work he gets paid ok but not as much as when he goes out of town. He has to do the TX trip i think 6 times.
If i am to refile our situation is so different than 2 months ago. we will have more of a disposable income if we try to refile again. that is why i would just be happpy with a 13 so we can get this done and over with. my lawyer said we could file right away if this case gets dismissed.
THANKs for all the advice everybody.

[freshstart06]

Oooh... the light bulb in my head came on. If your lawyer meant you can refile to chpt 13 then yes, you would be converting so I think he meant convert not refile. Since your husbands income is not the same make sure your plan reflects the worse case.

Trust me I understand about private school and doing what you have to do but the trustee and Us trustee can be unreasonable. Just like at the standard living expense for example, how can live like that.

[jec]

messed up

ask if you can resubmit or refile the means test

[wrktwoliv]

You may not get the private school tuition

I don't think you can claim more than $1500 a year in
private school tuition. But you can claim much more in daycare
costs. you might want check that with the trustee.

I had to combine my daughter's tuition with her child support to make it fly.

[novemberrain]

Well my whole case got dismissed as of 8-15. I told my attorney to sign the dismissal papers so I can refile for a chpt 7 again because that is what my attorney told me I could do. Yesterday when I spoke with my attorney I had asked him if we could convert to a chpt 13 because the odds do not look good for a chpt 7. I told my attorney before if I cant get a chpt 7 i would be fine with a chpt 13. My attorney then told me to find another attorney to file a chpt 13. So I have a meeting with another attorney on Thursday. I hope this one knows what he is doing and doesnt have a problem with me asking questions and explaining things to me. I just want all of this over with. I took my debt class in February and retained my attorney in march and he filed 5-18. I dont see why it took so long. I just have to have hope that this time around it will work out.
Guess I will be moving my thoughts to the chpt 13 threads. Thanks for listeng and all your help and advice.

[JRScott]

Since really you didn't get good representation, I would also mention this to the new lawyer. It might be possible to get back any money you paid the first one. Because it seems he did a very very poor job.

I hope it goes well for you. Good Luck

[novemberrain]

thanks JRS. I hope the new attorney is good. He has been in the business for 30 years and when I spoke with him yesterday he told me that my first attorney was crazy to think that I would be able to do a chpt 7. A chpt 7 would be nice but im done with this whole bk thing and money and credit. I just want to get the ball rolling to get my financial life back on track. So Chpt 13 here i come!!!!!!!!!

[lrprn]

Well my whole case got dismissed as of 8-15. ... Guess I will be moving my thoughts to the chpt 13 threads.

Welcome to the five year bk plan, NR! No matter what anyone tells you, it's still wonderful to finally have real relief from creditors and a plan on how to get out of the impossible debt hole. If forced to choose between filing Ch 13 for five years and dealing with the debt for decades to come, I'll take the Ch 13 any time!

Sounds like you found a good lawyer this time who can help get your case refiled as a 13 - that's great!

See you over on the 13 side!