Is This True???????????????

[kjb1969]

Copied this from this forum, pages deep. Is this accurate...........

Be careful about giving a retainer to an attorney if it hasn't been at least 90 days since your last major purchase or at least 70 days for a cash advance. It has actually been argued and won by creditors that the day you paid your attorney was the day you decided to file (even if it is a few months later).

[Minnymouth]

If you buy a big screen today and retain an attorney next week, YES, you knew you were going to file BK and are commiting abuse. And yes, I'm sure it has been argued in court and won that when you bought the item, you knew you were going to file. That is called abuse and the creditors act upon it. After the 70/90 days of no big purchases, no cash advances then the creditor has to "prove" abuse in order to object.

[SinkingFast]

That was the comment here on the Forum when I first joined.

The day you pay an attny a retainer shows your intent to file BK.

But I don't know that retaining an attny within the 70/90 day time frame is immediate grounds for an Objection. Your Creditors still have to prove Intent.

If you went and bought a big screen, plasma TV, and hired an attny within the 70/90 day time frame, I wouldn't be surprised if the Creditor filed an Objection. Big luxury purchases, lavish vacations, large balance transfers are definite red flags for Creditors.

Most of us, tho, are robbing Peter to pay Paul for a long time before we get to the BK decision making point. Paying bills, buying groceries, clothes, and gasoline with our CC's. Just trying to hang on. Counting on getting a better paying job. Or selling the house. Or whatever GREAT event is gonna change our fortunes.

[HHM]

Look at it this way...

The time when you retained an attorney is ONE factor in determining abuse, but may or may not be definitive. But, it doesn't look good. Any attorney for a creditor at a 341 meeting will ask you, "when did you retain your attorney?", and "when did you first consult with an attorney?"

Regardless of when you speak with an attorney, the underlying transaction, itself, must first be objectionable. If you go spend $800 at your dentist to have filings done after you have retained an attorney, and within the 90 day time frame before filing BK, that transaction is not objectionable in the first place, so it won't matter when you hired your attorney or when you filed BK.

[Lindsay]

You only have to worry if it is luxury items, though? $1000 spent on a credit card for groceries and gas in the 90 days before filing isn't objectionable? We didn't buy any luxury items, just household and utility needs, but I think I probably should still wait a full 90 days before filing. We haven't talked to a lawyer yet but were planning on going next week. Maybe I should wait a little longer.

[kjb1969]

No luxery items, but we did a "last run" to costco this weekend $960.00 , all groceries, stocked up the basement freezer.
and a $800 cash advance last week. (1st ever cash advance on any cards)
We cut all our cards up Sunday night except our gas card, dont plan on using though.
The lawyer i met with said i could give him 300 to start and get everything together and at 90/120 days he will file. i think i should wait at least 90 days before i give him anything.?.?

[whatamess]

No luxery items, but we did a "last run" to costco this weekend $960.00 , all groceries, stocked up the basement freezer.
and a $800 cash advance last week. (1st ever cash advance on any cards)
I live in NJ

Hey fellow Jerseyian!!
What district are you? If you are in the Trenton court district I would wait the 90 days. My attorney has told me they are VERY strict. Is that what you normally spend a month for groceries? If so, save your receipts so you can prove it. Can you show what the cash advance was used for and was it something like medical care, mortgage or rent? Those things may be okay. We waited until 7 months passed since our last charge (groceries & a cell phone bill) & 9 months past out last biggy. (School clothes/ supplies and some cheap furniture so we didnt have to sleep on the floor anymore & have our clothes in boxes!!)
FIY Ive heard Camden is a bit more mellow. Ive not known anyone who filed In Newark court.
NJ is not really BK friendly. Take a look at our exemptions. WHERE in NJ can you rent for those amounts? Not around here. The auto exemption is a joke too.
WAM

[kjb1969]

11

What district are you? I dont know were it falls, i live in Ocean County, so i guess Camden??

If you are in the Trenton court district I would wait the 90 days.
I am, at least that!!!!

My attorney has told me they are VERY strict.unsure:


Is that what you normally spend a month for groceries?
At Costco usually 600 every 3-4 months, so its not unrealistic

Can you show what the cash advance was used for and was it something like medical care, mortgage or rent? No, if i am past the 70 days will they still question it?

NJ is not really BK friendly.
WAM