Pre-filing course - mom has Alzheimers

[dennis]

Hello, I'm a long time lurker and now have some questions.

My mother has considerable debt and has alzheimers disease. I am her caregiver and have POA. Do you know how we would get around the required courses? She definately couldn't do it or even be able to answer any questions. I have called several attorneys and they say they will get back with me, none have. Thanks for your help

[Boscoe]

There must be some provision in the law and on the forms for a waiver of this requirement. The Alzheimer's will also be an issue for the 341 and "do you understand what a bk means to you, your credit, etc."

Keep looking for an attorney who can properly answer this. And hopefully someone in this website can help.

[lrprn]

(Dennis, I moved your post and its first reply to a new thread. This way you will get more attention and very likely more answers as well - lrprn)

My mother has considerable debt and has alzheimers disease. I am her caregiver and have POA.

I assume by POA, you mean Power of Attorney. Is the POA just for healthcare decisions or it is for her finances as well?

It is possible to file bankruptcy for a debtor who has authorized you to act on his/her behalf. Here's a 2005 bankruptcy court case from Texas that involved this exact situation - http://www.txnb.uscourts.gov/opinion...5_20051018.pdf

Do you know how we would get around the required courses? She definately couldn't do it or even be able to answer any questions.

First, you are going to need a notarized statement from your mom's doctor stating she is not capable of understanding or taking the required courses nor participating in her 341 meeting.

Also there is an Official Form 11A when someone is filing for someone else through POA - http://www.uscourts.gov/bkforms/official/b11a.pdf - that has to be filled out - here are the instructions - http://www.uscourts.gov/bkforms/official/b11a-inst.pdf

I have called several attorneys and they say they will get back with me, none have.

This is a situation where you should make office appointments with 3-4 experienced bankruptcy lawyers in your area. Most give free initial consultations.

This is a very unusual situation so you need expert legal advice to be sure you meet all the requirements of the law on your mom's behalf.

Does your mom still own significant assets and that's why you want to file bankruptcy for her? If she doesn't own any assets, then at her age and level of incapacity, she could be judgment-proof. With no assets, her creditors have nothing to gain by suing her. The debt can just sit out there until your mom passes when it will be discharged just as effectively as filing bk. Just a thought....

[Minnymouth]

Suggestion,
Try consultations with attorneys that handle bankruptcy cases BUT are also Trustees in their districts...... then you will also know how a Trustee will handle the issues you have.

Keep us posted.

[dennis]

Thank you for the replies and for starting a new thread.

Mom doesn't have any assets. She only gets 1247.00 a month in ss. Her assets were sold four years ago and most of the money went to the creditors.

I even spent several thousand dollars of my money to try and help her. I was working with the creditors, and paying each one every month. The last payment was made on 10-05. At that time Chase decided to raise the interest rate to 31% and I quit paying them.
I was never on any of the accounts, or even an authorized user, but I did use the card to buy her groceries a few times. This was about six years ago, and I had no idea she had huge debts. She hid things well.

The collection notices come in both of our names now. I have called and told them I was not on the account and they say they have proof I used the cards.

If she was able to file BK, then that would be one less thing for me to worry about and I could concentrate more on taking care of her. Thanks again for your help

[Minnymouth]

One thing your really need to check on is to pull your own credit report and see if ANY OF THIS is showing up on your own credit reort...... if so DISPUTE IT.......

As her POA you have the authority to sign anything for her that your POA allows, but that does not mean you are responsible for the debt....... though you are responsible and accountable for your actions regarding her affairs.

Filing BK for her will clean up the situation and make your life a lot easier trying to take care of her......

Go for it.............

[dennis]

One thing your really need to check on is to pull your own credit report and see if ANY OF THIS is showing up on your own credit reort...... if so DISPUTE IT.......

As her POA you have the authority to sign anything for her that your POA allows, but that does not mean you are responsible for the debt....... though you are responsible and accountable for your actions regarding her affairs.

Filing BK for her will clean up the situation and make your life a lot easier trying to take care of her......

Go for it.............

Yes I pull my own reports every 60 days, as I don't trust them. So far nothing of hers shows. Chase has lowered my limits from 10,000.00 down to 500.00 on three cards I've had from them since 1988 with a spotless record of payment. I'm sure they only did this because of mom's situation.

I do have durable POA and a general POA that states I'm authorized to handle all her affairs.

[dennis]

Hello, I meet with an attorney today at 4:30. Are there specific questions I need to ask? The POA states that I can handle any and all financial affairs, including bk.

Also I've tried to get mom's credit report, and they will not release it to me. Should i just let the attorney handle it?

[keepmine]

If she has no assets, why are you bothering to file bk? SS is exempt from creditor seizure.

[JRScott]

Hello, I meet with an attorney today at 4:30. Are there specific questions I need to ask? The POA states that I can handle any and all financial affairs, including bk.

Also I've tried to get mom's credit report, and they will not release it to me. Should i just let the attorney handle it?

I'd ask the attorney about it for sure. The credit unions normally will not release save to the person they belong to. One thing you might do is fill out the forms to get the credit reports and snail mail them into the credit reporting agencies. They couldn't then tell if your mom signed it or not. (And since you have POA you can sign her name legally).

Might be a way to get em, I think this suggestion is on the up and up .

I'd detail your mom's situation, that you have power of attorney over her affairs. Then lay out the situation and see what the lawyer thinks. It sounds like she's a no asset case, I wouldn't think it would be to hard. I'd ask if she would need to attend the 341 or if you could attend in her place with POA (my aunt has alzheimer's, she doesn't know who most of us are most of the time, I'm sure she'd be lost in a courtroom).

Good Luck

[dennis]

Just got a call from the attorney, he said don't bother coming in as the trustee said they would not allow me to file for her. He said I must have guardianship over her.

Keepmine, the main reason I wanted to file was to get the creditors off my back. Since I spoke to them in the beginning they have addressed everything in both of our names. I have tried telling the collectors I am not on any of the accounts, then they ask stupid questions, like why am I trying to hide her etc. I'm fed up with them, I have sent cease and desist letters and that did no good. I've changed my # and they still get it, and they call me at my business #.

[lrprn]

Just got a call from the attorney, he said don't bother coming in as the trustee said they would not allow me to file for her. He said I must have guardianship over her.

Call the lawyer back and give him/her this 2005 Texas bankruptcy case law precedent - http://www.txnb.uscourts.gov/opinion...5_20051018.pdf where an adult child was allowed by the bk judge in that district to file bankruptcy for a diminshed capacity aged parent with just a Power of Attorney.

If this lawyer still says no, then interview 2-3 more in your area. It may be that this lawyer has cold feet dealing with the trustee - doesn't mean all of them in your area will. Don't stop here - see what other lawyers in your area have to say about your sad situation.

Then go get an answering machine and caller ID and let them screen all incoming calls for you. You can turn off the ringer and tell your friends and family to leave messages and you'll call them right back. You can also only answer calls from numbers that you recognize and let the machine pick up the rest. Let these bottom feeders stew in their own juices for awhile. YOU DO NOT HAVE TO TALK TO THEM!! They can't sue you for debt that isn't yours - they are just strong-arming you hoping you will pay up to get rid of them. DON'T PAY THEM ONE PENNY!! YOU OWE THEM NOTHING!!

Instead file a complaint with the Federal Trade Commission, go to www.ftc.gov or call toll-free, 1-877-FTC-HELP (1-877-382-4357); TTY: 1-866-653-4261. Explain that these creditors have continued to harrass you even after receiving written notice that they were not to contact you about your mother's debts any longer. They are violating the Fair Debt Collections Act to discuss her debt with you anyway.

Last contact the National Association of Consumer Advocates (NACA) at http://www.naca.net/debt-collection-abuse/ to see if one of their lawyers is interested in taking these collectors on for their violations of the US debt collection laws after receiving written notification by you to cease contact. Each individual violation costs the collector $1000 - these add up quickly. Best of all, NACA lawyers are often willing to take these cases on for a portion of the judgment as their fee.

Go get these collector vermin that are making your life miserable! You have a lot more power here than you realize!

[keepmine]

I'd file both FTC complaints as well as a complaint with your state Attorney General.
Don't talk with them if possible. At work, can you just send 'em to VM puratory?
I'd not waste the money to file bk on something they can never collect on. Just waite em out.

[JRScott]

If all else fails, how hard would it be to be declared her guardian?

[dennis]

Call the lawyer back and give him/her this 2005 Texas bankruptcy case law precedent - http://www.txnb.uscourts.gov/opinion...5_20051018.pdf where an adult child was allowed by the bk judge in that district to file bankruptcy for a diminshed capacity aged parent with just a Power of Attorney.

If this lawyer still says no, then interview 2-3 more in your area. It may be that this lawyer has cold feet dealing with the trustee - doesn't mean all of them in your area will. Don't stop here - see what other lawyers in your area have to say about your sad situation.

Then go get an answering machine and caller ID and let them screen all incoming calls for you. You can turn off the ringer and tell your friends and family to leave messages and you'll call them right back. You can also only answer calls from numbers that you recognize and let the machine pick up the rest. Let these bottom feeders stew in their own juices for awhile. YOU DO NOT HAVE TO TALK TO THEM!! They can't sue you for debt that isn't yours - they are just strong-arming you hoping you will pay up to get rid of them. DON'T PAY THEM ONE PENNY!! YOU OWE THEM NOTHING!!

Instead file a complaint with the Federal Trade Commission, go to www.ftc.gov or call toll-free, 1-877-FTC-HELP (1-877-382-4357); TTY: 1-866-653-4261. Explain that these creditors have continued to harrass you even after receiving written notice that they were not to contact you about your mother's debts any longer. They are violating the Fair Debt Collections Act to discuss her debt with you anyway.

Last contact the National Association of Consumer Advocates (NACA) at http://www.naca.net/debt-collection-abuse/ to see if one of their lawyers is interested in taking these collectors on for their violations of the US debt collection laws after receiving written notification by you to cease contact. Each individual violation costs the collector $1000 - these add up quickly. Best of all, NACA lawyers are often willing to take these cases on for a portion of the judgment as their fee.

Go get these collector vermin that are making your life miserable! You have a lot more power here than you realize!

Thank You very much for your help. I will take your advice and call another attorney. And I did tell the attorney about the case you pointed out, and he said that was not in this district. I have a feeling the trustee here is a real ***. Also the attorney said that since she lives at my address they have a right to continue to call. I will check into that some more. Again thanks for your help.