Question re paying credit cards via the web

[PaKettle]

All of my credit cards are registered with the banks' online sites where I always paid my bill through my checking account, online. (I do not have any credit owed to my bank.)

My question is:
Can any of these creditors take money from my checking account, since they have the routing number and checking account info? They are NOT automatic payments, they were ones that I had to initiate each month, but they were done online by just clicking a Make Payment button.

If so, I suppose I should cancel all of my online payment set ups. But I just checked and most of them do not have the ability to cancel that service online, they only have the ability to change it to another checking account.

So far, though, after 3 months of overdue payments, no one has taken anything from my bank, and I should be filing within 3 weeks or so.

[Boscoe]

You should remove your checking account numbers from these. They cannot remove money from your account without your authorization, but remove them just to be sure.

Be also advised that they will likely cancel your cards and remove your online access so you won't be able to access it anyway.

[PaKettle]

You should remove your checking account numbers from these. They cannot remove money from your account without your authorization, but remove them just to be sure.

Be also advised that they will likely cancel your cards and remove your online access so you won't be able to access it anyway.

That's the problem. At least on one site, I tried to remove the online payment access (remove my bank info) and the site had no way of removing them, only changing them to another bank. Now that I have an attorney on retainer I think I will call them and ask them how to do so, and if they try to talk to me about the debt I owe, I'll just refer them to him, per his instructions.

[Keebler]

That's the problem. At least on one site, I tried to remove the online payment access (remove my bank info) and the site had no way of removing them, only changing them to another bank. Now that I have an attorney on retainer I think I will call them and ask them how to do so, and if they try to talk to me about the debt I owe, I'll just refer them to him, per his instructions.

I had the same problem where accounts wouldn't let me delete my previous Routing and Account numbers.

So, I looked up the routing number for the credit card's own bank and typed that in the blank instead. For the account number I typed the credit card number.

In the unlikely case that they try to use the numbers I provided, it won't work. If they do manage to make it work, it points back to the bank themselves and kind of points back to my credit card account.

I posted about it here somewhere and included a link where you can lookup valid Routing Numbers to fill in the blanks.

[PaKettle]

I had the same problem where accounts wouldn't let me delete my previous Routing and Account numbers.

So, I looked up the routing number for the credit card's own bank and typed that in the blank instead. For the account number I typed the credit card number.

In the unlikely case that they try to use the numbers I provided, it won't work. If they do manage to make it work, it points back to the bank themselves and kind of points back to my credit card account.

I posted about it here somewhere and included a link where you can lookup valid Routing Numbers to fill in the blanks.

Thanks Keebler.
Here's the link to your thread about it (note that some people didn't seem to think this was a good idea, but I don't really see why not). And some people did not seem to understand the issue at hand:

http://tinyurl.com/2pgehk

And here's the link to looking up bank routing numbers:

http://www.gregthatcher.com/Financial/Default.aspx

What I would like to know is: Is it LEGAL for them to take money from your account just because they have your bank info on their web site which was set up for only manual payments, not automatic payments?

I'm not too worried about it because I figure if they haven't done it yet, they're probably not going to, and I'm filing within 2 weeks. Nevertheless I think I'll use the routing info and change my info on their web sites. It seems "wrong" that they won't let me just cancel the payment option via net. So I'll just change the routing number back to their bank as you did. I presume you had no negative consequences from doing this?

[jennyn]

It is not legal, unless you have given them specific permission to automatically deduct. I had the same thing, but they never did try to get anything out of my checking acct.

[PaKettle]

It is not legal, unless you have given them specific permission to automatically deduct. I had the same thing, but they never did try to get anything out of my checking acct.

Thanks for the info. I kind of had a feeling it was illegal unless you had given them permission to take money out automatically.

[Keebler]

Thanks Keebler.
Here's the link to your thread about it (note that some people didn't seem to think this was a good idea, but I don't really see why not). And some people did not seem to understand the issue at hand:

http://tinyurl.com/2pgehk

And here's the link to looking up bank routing numbers:

http://www.gregthatcher.com/Financial/Default.aspx

What I would like to know is: Is it LEGAL for them to take money from your account just because they have your bank info on their web site which was set up for only manual payments, not automatic payments?

I'm not too worried about it because I figure if they haven't done it yet, they're probably not going to, and I'm filing within 2 weeks. Nevertheless I think I'll use the routing info and change my info on their web sites. It seems "wrong" that they won't let me just cancel the payment option via net. So I'll just change the routing number back to their bank as you did. I presume you had no negative consequences from doing this?

There has been no backlash from my changing the accounts this way. I went through every account I had and deleted information when they let me and made the change I described when deleting wasn't a choice.

I still have the accounts open where I used to pay and I've opened two more new account that I actively use today. If there had been an attempt to go back and use old information to debit an account I would surely know.

It is not legal, unless you have given them specific permission to automatically deduct. I had the same thing, but they never did try to get anything out of my checking acct.

Here's the problem... The bank doesn't have a single clue what you've authorized and you have virtually no proof either. If you've previously allowed even one payment to a specific creditor to be debited this way you've opened up yourself to an unlimited number of payments to that same creditor. Again, the system is flawed because the bank has exactly zero information telling them what you've approved or not. The organization that initiates the debit can do it whenever they want and the bank will never question it. If it happens, and you haven't authorized it, you'll have nothing to send anyone to prove you're right and they're not. Whether it's legal or not is not very relevant because none of the parties involved have much proof showing exactly what was authorized.

Once they debit your account, the damage is done and you'll have to fight an up-hill battle to reverse it. The only reasonable strategy is to avoid the situation in the first place.

For me, I had a choice to send them a letter and hope they honor it or do as I did. In the future I will NEVER provide Routing and Transit information to ANYONE for the reasons I've described. My new Credit Union has an excellent Bill-Pay service that accomplishes the exact same thing without the risk of disclosing my account information directly -- the payments are initiated by the bank instead of being initiated by the creditor.

Automatic Withdrawals
Tom Martino February 11, 2005Troubleshooter.com

[marzipan13]

i doubt that they might try to deduct payments without your authorization.
if you haven't filed bk yet, a record your checking acct info is still in their system even if you delete it now or later... because you've registered it on their website and made payments in the past.
in the future, they may use that info if their is a judgment against you for that debt... they could use it to garnish your bank account.
1 of my creditors did that because i had been sending them checks, that's how they got my bank info!
i've learned that from now on, i will use money orders to pay creditors! haha

[PaKettle]

There has been no backlash from my changing the accounts this way. I went through every account I had and deleted information when they let me and made the change I described when deleting wasn't a choice.

I still have the accounts open where I used to pay and I've opened two more new account that I actively use today. If there had been an attempt to go back and use old information to debit an account I would surely know.

Here's the problem... The bank doesn't have a single clue what you've authorized and you have virtually no proof either. If you've previously allowed even one payment to a specific creditor to be debited this way you've opened up yourself to an unlimited number of payments to that same creditor. Again, the system is flawed because the bank has exactly zero information telling them what you've approved or not. The organization that initiates the debit can do it whenever they want and the bank will never question it.[snip]

Just to clarify, my original question is not about AUTOMATIC payments but rather payments that I initiate, albeit on the creditor's web site. In other words, I have not authorized them to take any money, ever, without my express permission which is given ONLY when I click a button saying "Make Payment".

I never authorized any Automatic Payments because I did not like the idea that they might make one when my checking balance was too low to cover it. If I make the payment myself, each month, by clicking the Pay button, then I can make sure there is money in there to cover it at that time.

I think if you've given them permission to make Automatic payments, then Keebler is right, they could use that to take money from your account at any time if you owe them. But for manually authorized payments (as in clicking the Payment button on their site), I don't think they can take the payment until you click the button...

UNLESS they later get the right to GARNISH or take money from your bank - then they would certainly use that information to get the money owed them.

I think I'll do what Keebler suggests, even if it's overkill in my case, and change the routing numbers on the banks that won't let me delete the bank info from their web site.

[PaKettle]

Just an update on the process of deleting or changing manual pay information on creditor web sites:
I was able to DELETE all bank pay account info on Chase.
On Capitol One and Amex I could not delete it, so I put in a different account where we tend to not put much money at all, but with the wrong route number.

Citi bank was the only one who would not even let me get into the bank pay information. When I went to their site, (and my wife and I have 3 cards with them) they did not allow me to even get to the "pay online" part of the site. It says that because we are late in paying, if we want to pay we have to fill out a special form. So I had to just leave them alone. Imagine, they are making it HARDER to pay, when they want money from you! Does that make any sense???