New member, similar problems?

[gameover]

Hello all-

I'm very glad to have found this forum. Going through the decision & process to file Chapter 7 has been a lonely, painful, and confusing one. My attorney is through a large firm and he is always in court in the mornings and seems to rushed to speak with. It's nice to have a place to read situations similar to mine when I am having the 'Well what about this, and oh god, what about THAT?' thoughts.

To start off, here's my list o' problems:

Basic facts :Living in Ohio, mid 20's, unmarried, renting a house. Rent shared w/one other person.

Income around $19000 a yr.

Went to college, racked up student loans, unfortunately racked up credit card debt, bought a car. Paid off car ENTIRELY. Do not owe on vehicle.
Credit card bills through the roof. Had to stop paying on them (not something I feel good about in ANY way)

Bills went lax over the course of a year and a half while the calls & endless letters came all hours of the night.

Earlier this year, I was admitted to the ER and had to have an emergency procedure. Naturally, I also do not have medical insurance so my medical bills are around $22,000 in addition to all of the thousands of dollars of credit card debt and my student loans.

Additionally, I am being sued by Chase. I have a Case Management Conference set for Thursday of next week. I am TERRIFIED. I wanted to have everything filed, signed, sealed, delivered so I would avoid court appearances but it just didn't happen. Does anyone have any infor on a CMC? I don't know what to do.

My progress in filing has reached me sending off my final signed petition to the lawyer's office yesterday.

What I am worried most about is this, my only asset:

I am very worried the trustee is going to attempt to seize my vehicle.
Now, like I said, the vehicle (a 2005 Toyota Echo purchased in 04) has been entirely paid off. There is a little body damage to it, but otherwise in pretty good shape. I am worried because it is my only means of transportation. My place of employment offers a tuition reimbursement program so I had applied to a local university to start going further in college this fall, but am now worried that I won't have a way to quickly get to school and work. (both places are pretty far apart, taking the bus would be a nightmare time-wise)

My boyfriend has a much better job then I do and has insisted to help me 'buy back the car' from the trustee if it's possible. I'm eternally thankful that he even offered to help me in such a big way, but I have no idea how this is going to work. I certainly don't have the money to do this.

My lawyer initially had said to give up the car since it's 'just a car', and to then later buy a new car (!!!!!!) since that's an ideal way to rebuild ones credit after bankruptcy. I can barely afford paying my rent and living expenses now as it is, but to add a car payment on to that???? Is he crazy??? I really don't want to do that at all

If anyone could give any advice on attending a CMC or having a similar car situation as mine (car being only asset, it's paid off & needs to be kept)
I would love to hear it. I feel like I'm drowning.

Sorry for writing a novel, but I've only let two people in my life (my mom and boyfriend) know what I'm going through financially. It's wonderful to have found a forum that can listen & relate.

[AngelinaCat]

Dear Gameover:

Welcome to this wonderful Forum. My first recommendation is to go online to nolopress.com and buy their Ch7 book. It comes in an online version and a print version for about half the price of what it is in the local bookstore. It is written in plain English and can explain a lot to you. This will become your BK textbook. Every state is a little bit different from each other in what kind of property you can own and how much value of it you are allowed to claim as 'exempt' from seizure by the Trustee. There is a section in this book about each state's exemptions. I'm in Florida, so can't advise on Ohio, but there are several other members here living in Ohio that can give better inromation on that.

Next, go to Kelly Blue Book, and some of the other automobile sites online and get a print-out of what the 'private party sale' value of your car might be. You might also go to used car dealers in your area and see what they would offer you for it. (I'm not saying to sell it--just get several different opinions.) You might also look through the classified and see what similar makes and models are going for.

On, the consultation, if the attorney files the paperwork quickly enough, that conference may just be made to 'go away,' as once the paperwork is filed with the court, the court sends out a notice to all of your creditors advising them of your filing, and the Automatic Stay kicks in, and all lawsuits against you, and any you have against any other person is put on hold. Your attorney can also file an Emergency Petition in order to stave off this conference. My husband and I had our attorney do that to stave off a situation similar to yours. Then we had 15 days to file all the documenting paperwork behind this. Be warned, however, that anything done in haste can be filled with errors that will rise up and bite you in the seat later on. This has happened to us, and it sounds like you are a little unsure of your attorney.

It might be wise to just go ahead on to the conference and talk with the other side. They will most likely be wanting to see if you and they can compromise on some method of paying at least part of the debt back.

On the car, it would have been better if it had not been totally paid off, that way it would be less attractive to the Trustee. However, depending on how much it is worth, and your state's exemptions, the Trustee may not be interested in it anyway.

I am going to stop at this point for now, as I have said quite a bit for you to absorb. Please take care and try not to worry.

[Dave C.]

Your car and Bankruptcy is

You are correct the trustee will attempt to take your vehicle. The problem is your vehicle is paid for however when dealing with property, there are three options you have. The first option is surrendering second option is reaffirming the third option is redemption. Tell your attorney you would like to arrange to have your vehicle redeemed. There are companies throughout the country that live and breathe to refinance vehicles that are going in to bankruptcy. If you'd like to get the best possible price for your vehicle the price the trustee is going to use go to edmounds.com use the private sale price. When the law changed in 2005 the trustees went from trade-in value to private sale value.

What this means is the trustee is going to come up with a number in order to keep your vehicle you will have to pay that amount of money. Personally, I use a company in Ohio call 722 redemption. Which is ironic because the bankruptcy chapter is 722? If your attorney does not know about redemption or know where to get a redemption done seek new council immediately.

[gameover]

Thank you both for your suggestions. Dave C, my attorney had mentioned the 722 redemption, but 'advised against it'. This was before I had my boyfriend offer to help buy the car back though, so my attorney wasn't aware that it would even be a viable option for myself.

Angelinacat, the lawyer would have received my signed, completed petition today. The CMC is set for next Thursday. When I called the law firm yesterday, one of the secretaries told me it usually takes 'a couple weeks for the final petition to be filed' so I don't think I'll be in the clear in time for Thursday of next week, especially with tomorrow being a holiday. I just don't know what to say or do at this CMC. I'm going to call my attorney back on Monday to get some advice.

Ahh I'm just so scared. I really didn't want to go to court, I have very little knowledge of the legal system and I'm not sure what to admit to or anything.

Should I tell the plaintiffs lawyers that I've begun the process of filing for bankruptcy? What if I don't go at all?

I tried to call the judges staff attorney to request a continuance, but no one answered and I left a message (haven't heard anything back yet)

[AngelinaCat]

Angelinacat, the lawyer would have received my signed, completed petition today. The CMC is set for next Thursday. When I called the law firm yesterday, one of the secretaries told me it usually takes 'a couple weeks for the final petition to be filed' so I don't think I'll be in the clear in time for Thursday of next week, especially with tomorrow being a holiday.

As I said earlier, you can have /INSIST your attorney file an emergency petition. They can do it online via the law office’s account with PACER. (Don’t worry about what PACER is right now. There are plenty of threads on the subject.) Just be sure you are there to sign the papers and make sure everything is correct before he submit’s them

Should I tell the plaintiffs lawyers that I've begun the process of filing for bankruptcy? What if I don't go at all?

The absolute worst thing you can do is NOT show up in court on a date you are supposed to. That WILL result in an automatic Judgment against you, and any possibility of working out a compromise payment plan with the Plaintiff’s attorney will be GONE.

I tried to call the judges staff attorney to request a continuance, but no one answered and I left a message (haven't heard anything back yet)

Because you have legal representation, the Judge’s office will very likely tell you that they CANNOT talk to you, only your attorney. That is why if the emergency petition is not filed, you need to appear in person at the conference, and state honestly that you cannot pay this debt at this time, and at least appear to be willing to work out a compromise payment plan. That will help show ‘good-faith’ on your part, and help stall the process a few more days. All you need do is present yourself as a professional, and say as little as possible. Answer Yes and No questions, just that way—Yes or No. Do NOT volunteer any more information than what is asked.

I know you are terrified right now. Go and digest this information for a little while, and PLEASE try to calm down. It really is not as bad as it seems. I know it is hard to believe, but my husband, AngelinaCatHub and I were probably feeling worse off than you right before we found this Forum and support group.

Love and Best Wishes to you~~~
You will hear more from us by and by~~~

[AngelinaCatHub]

Young Lady: Listen to my wife, Ms. ‘Cat. I have to. She has told you well. On Pacer, your lawyer can file papers and get you a “case number” at that time. It is automatic. If you do not receive a document in the mail before next Thursday, you HAVE to show up and first thing to do is address the Judge, (use your gut feeling for the right time as I know you are scared) tell him you are IN bankruptcy, give the lawyer’s name etc. and the case number. You will be fine. In bk you might make the Trustee understand that you ARE bankrupt, and your paid off car is the only thing you own and needs to be used for school as well as your “part time work” if you have that. He may “abandon” that car. That is the term they use. Keep us up to date on this. ‘Hub

[Dave C.]

Dear gameover

Am I to understand you're boyfriend purchased your car so it would not be in your name and part of the bankruptcy?

Your attorney is okay with this? Please discuss this with your attorney. If your boyfriend purchased your car less than one year prior to filing it is considered fraudulent conveyance. The trustee can and will transfer the car from your boyfriend and bring it back into your name for an asset providing the trustee knows about the transaction.

As for your case management consultation, the correct thing is to attend. However, if you are afraid it's not necessary for you to be there a judgment will be entered and your bankruptcy null and void the judgment.

It's true your attorney can send in an emergency petition filed electronically submitting the first three pages of petition. This will stay in the CMC. However, if you appear at court tell the judge a chapter 7 will be filed within the next couple weeks and asked for a continuance most likely you'll receive it.

You need to calm down this is not as serious as you believe. It is a minor civil hearing. For the bank simply standard procedure. They don't ever expect to be paid the purpose of the hearing is to obtain a judgment for tax write off.

[gameover]

Dave-

No no no no no no.... and No.

Here's the situation, no shennanaggins, no wrong doings.

I bought the car in my name in 2004. (Before I'd even met my boyfriend) Over the course of 2 years, I paid it off completely. Nothing owed on it whatsoever.

When I first met with the lawyer and we were going over assets, he warned me that this was my only asset and would most likely be seized by the trustee. I was upset to hear this, as it is my only mode of transportation, and I do like my car. It's nothing fancy, but I've been the only owner so I know it's history and etc.

When the lawyer told me to just give it up, I asked him if there wasn't anything I could do, and that's when he told me about the 722 option, but advised against it because he said it's 'just a car'. The 722 sounded great, but I absolutely do NOT have the money to do buy it back.

When I broke down and told my boyfriend everything I was going through, he immediately said, "I'm going to do whatever I can to help you, I will buy your car back from the trustee if they try to take it" meaning he would front the money from his pocket for the 722 situation. He has a much much better job then I do. (it was hard enough telling my money problems to him, I was SO embarrassed! But he's been so incredibly understanding)

We never did anything shady like him buying the car from me and having it transferred into his name. No way. I'm sorry, I should have worded my original post better.

I know everyone keeps telling me to calm down, I'm not freaking out *THAT* much but I really have no knowledge of the legal system, & even very little of the bankruptcy process. I don't know all of this little meetings and hearings entail or how serious they are, what I should/shouldn't say, what to admit to, deny, etc. Plus I naturally am assuming the worst of everything at this point, so...

I'm just glad I have a place to let out these worries, thanks for everything guys!

[JRScott]

What your boyfriend needs to understand is that he can't really loan you the money, he can of course gift you the money. Privately after the bankruptcy you can decide to pay him back but up front he should realize its a gift.

Next you need to go to court. If you don't show up they'll issue a default judgment against you. While in the long run the bankruptcy will take care of it, if they moved fast enough they might could seize funds from your bank account before then. Just show up at court. Tell the judge that you are in the process of filing bankruptcy. Provide your attorneys name, phone number, chapter you are filing, and district you will be filing in. In many cases this will stop the case right then and there, once they confirm you have indeed hired an attorney and that you are filing. Also I'm assuming you listed this case in the bankruptcy, if not be sure to amend it before signing.

It'll be okay even if they get a judgment in the end it will be wiped out by the bankruptcy.

[AngelinaCat]

With the car, you may be declared an 'Asset Case' as we were, because we own too much that isn't covered by our state's exemptions. In our case, we were offered the opportunity to buy our stuff back from the BK Estate. Otherwise our stuff would be sold at auction. In our case we chose to buy our stuff back as some of it is family heirlooms--none of it of any real great monetary value--but over our exemptions none the less. We are making monthly payments to the Trrustee and will continue doing so for the next nine months.

That might be an option for you.

[dragonnfly]

Typically, as far as I know anyways, the trustee sets a dollar amount for the car. Im not positive but I think they subtract any part you are able to exempt. If you have anyone or any way you can buy your car back. I know someone here locally that did that with their SUV. Im not sure how the gifting or the ownership of the vehicle works but it has been done. I supose he could buy the vehicle put a legal lien on it and have you make him payments. Talk to your lawyer.