Problems brought on my stubborn spouse...

[roedog]

Whew, heres the deal. I've felt that my wife and I needed to file bk since last October or so. (I'm amazed we have stayed afloat since then) From Oct.-Jan. or so I argued with her many times about it. She flat-out refused to even consider the idea. Despite the fact the writing was very clearly on the wall that we were headed downhill fast, I felt like I was banging my head against a brick wall.
Finally, I told myself she would see the problem when the credit finally ran out completely, and dropped the subject at that point. Well, it's about to run out completely and lo and behold, she finally saw the light! And of course, because she wouldn't listen before, she made some questionable purchases along the way.
Our 10-yr anniversary was this year, and she surprised me with a 3 day trip to Vegas. What a bittersweet surprise that was. Everything non-refundable of course. So that was charged on the CC in May, took the trip at the end of July. Now, we didn't splurge on anything. Spent only a day in Vegas and did almost no gambling (none with CC), but it was a Vegas trip and some food and gas were charged, etc.
My main questions/concerns are: Will that pose a problem? Should we delay filing as long as possible to create some buffer time? And finally, would using an additional credit card be a bad idea to create some extra time? I have a credit card that I received last fall as an emergency back-up that has not been activated yet. Assuming I can still activate it, would it be a bad idea to do so?
One last thing, does anyone else run into the problem of the ignorant/stubborn spouse? I feel like her ignorance has been the main cause of our finances getting to this point, and her stubborness was/is preventing us from escaping the problem. Frustrating, to say the least. Sorry, had to get that out.
Thanks for your time!

[Frogge]

Roedog, HI and welcome to the forum.
First, you are not alone, there are a lot of us here with stubborn spouses.. as well as wait time needed for CC use to drop off before filing.

I am pretty new to all this, but I DO know that it seems like you've known (and finally your wife sees) what your situation is ..so. If your credit, as expected, has busted out of the roof now - you know where this is going. I would NOT recommend activating and using another credit card.

I would recommend you call 2-3 attorneys for free consults to get an idea of what your options are, and how that Vegas trip will affect you. Take your wife with you. Waiting 3-6 months to file is not a big deal, a lot of us are waiting longer than that for various reasons. Glad you're here, you will find this forum VERY informative and supportive.

[Cali]

Here are some questions that will help us help you better.

Was the trip a huge amount?

Was that the last time you used any card?

When do you expect to file?

I wouldn't use any cards at all. I would consult with 2-3 attorneys and go from there.

My hubby is deployed, so I had to file and do the 341 alone. So no, I didn't have a problem at all, and I doubt I would have had any if he were here.

[roedog]

Thanks for the kind words
Frogge. My only concern with waiting too long is that our income level right now falls just under the limit for filing Chapter 7 (I forget what the exact term is). I know we could still take the test where we add up all of our expenses , etc, and still possibly make the cut, but I would really prefer to avoid that if possible. One more pay raise for either of our jobs (as small as they are the last few years), could put us over the edge. The income limit I saw was for last November, haven't located it yet as of today, so maybe it has gone up (since everything else has!), but i bet the wheels move slowly when it comes to increasing such limits?! I'm going to track that down to find out for sure.

[woeisme]

One thing you need to do, is make sure you wife understands what a life-changing event filing BK is. No, it's not the end of the world, the universe doesn't implode or anything, but if she's not willing to face reality, to commit to a real budget that involves spending less than what you earn and saving every month, then you guys are unfortunately very likely to end up in this exact same position again, and won't have the option of filing again for a long, long time. Good luck!

[woeisme]

And definitely DO NOT ACTIVATE THAT LAST CREDIT CARD!!!! Stop paying on the credit cards you have now and plan to include in your filing, and the money saved there should allow you to live on a cash only basis. If you can't live on what you earn without using credit (without paying the current creditors anymore) then the BK option won't solve your problems because you are still spending beyond your means.

[Frogge]

Thanks for the kind words
Frogge. My only concern with waiting too long is that our income level right now falls just under the limit for filing Chapter 7 (I forget what the exact term is). I know we could still take the test where we add up all of our expenses , etc, and still possibly make the cut, but I would really prefer to avoid that if possible. One more pay raise for either of our jobs (as small as they are the last few years), could put us over the edge. The income limit I saw was for last November, haven't located it yet as of today, so maybe it has gone up (since everything else has!), but i bet the wheels move slowly when it comes to increasing such limits?! I'm going to track that down to find out for sure.

yes, the median income has increased since November.. go to legalconsumer.com and do a trial means test.

[berrymom31]

We are a little over the median..about 9,000 and our atty does not see it as a problem. We are waiting 6 months to file because I am quitting my job to get us that close. Its okay though, the creditors call the atty, not us and we are not paying any bills in the mean time! Yes, it is important you are both plugged in and see the severity of the problem. For years my dh just spent and did not listen to reason, vacations, house projects, cars....now he sees the light because we are on cash basis..when its gone, its gone! It took us both seeing the light to realize BK was our only option.

Good Luck!

[AngelinaCat]

Hi roedog: welcome to the Forum. Both you and your wife need to consult with 3 or 4 attorneys now and get a feel for one you can work with and most important of all, communicate with. Once you hire an attorney, it will most likely be several months before you are ready to file anyway, but I would wait at least six months from the end of July.

Whatever you do, don't keep using the currect CCs, and don't activate the other one.

If you have a 401(K) or other retirement plan, DO NOT raid them trying to keep afloat. Retirement accounts are Exempt.

Also, go to the nolopress.com site and purchase their CH7 book. It is written in understandable English and will help you both understand the process, along with what to do and not do. Also purchasing online costs about half the retail costs in your local bookstore. They offer an online downloadable version, and a print version for the same price.

Good luck to you both.

[hnhlvr]

Do not activate the other card especially if your spouse is "stubborn." What would stop her from using that card or possibly YOU using it too? That card would quickly get maxed out which WILL raise red flags if you plan to file any time soon.

Like Frogge said, many of us are waiting longer then six months to file. My dh and I are planning to wait at least a year. You may have to do that also.

[justplaintired]

Welcome to BKforum!

Like the other posters said do not activate that card. Stop using cc now. You need to meet an attorney and get a good time line for filing. Also once you've met the attorney and are sure filing is right for you, you will no longer pay on cc. Now make sure you meet with a few attorneys. Consultations most of the time are free and you want to be sure you're confident in the attorney.

Far as income do you forsee an increase in income? If so then make sure you mention this to your attorney. You will take the means test whether you file 7 or 13. Also if you have a mortgage do you intend to keep the house? You will need to make sure your current to file C7.

[roedog]

Wow, so many responses. I am thankful for every one of them.
First, Cali, the trip was not a large amount ( I don't think), about $1200 for everything. No extravagant purchases. Spent $50 cash on actual gambling.
As of this moment, credit cards are still being used for basic gas and groceries, etc. This is a part that truly confuses me. Everyone says to stop using the cards period, but how can you survive for 3, 6, 9 months waiting to file when it isn't possible to do so if payments are being made in the meantime. We haven't missed any payments yet, though it is just a matter of time once they limit out (2-3 months maybe). But I have heard that leaving your credit score as good as possible before the BK will result in coming out of BK with the score in ok shape, at least better shape than knocking it down by not making payments. I know 2-3 months won't do much, but wouldn't 6-9 months be a problem?

Woeisme, believe me, I want my wife to understand more than anything. That concerns me very much. She has never been good with money and budgeting. Unfortunately part of it comes from her mom who also has no concept of money. She has filed bankruptcy 3 times, and I still don't think she has wised up. I hope the class that is required to enlighten people on their financial indiscretions will help, but I don't have much faith in it doing enough. Believe me, I am going to do what I can to make her "get it".

The median income was what I was referring to earlier. It looks like we will fall under, which I believe virtually guarantees filing for Chapt. 7 Even with an annual raise at work, we would still fall under. One concern is my wife has been looking for a new job and a slightly better income would jeopardize the median limit, but certainly wouldn't be enough to help in any other way. At least she is willing to listen to that concern now!

[hnhlvr]

I decided to delete this. It was particially sarcastic, but as most of us know, tone often comes across incorrectly on forums and I'm betting my post just came off as rude.

Best of luck to you, Roedog!

[Lajazz947]

I am to blame for this.

My wife is great at budgeting.

I am good at making money, bad at administering it.

I had too big an ego to admit defeat.

I now wave the white flag.

We are now on a budget, cash only for EVERYTHING.

What I don't have, I don't want right now.

I was the stubborn one.

[TEW]

I jsut wrote 4 pages on the but figured I better not.
DW is why I am here she just does not get it.