341 meeting--docs to bring or "how to kill a tree"

[Tabbygirl]

I got a letter from the ch. 7 trustee with a whole page of stuff to bring. I sat down at my printer and printed, copied, printed....you get the idea. And I'm not finished! He's requesting 6 months of bank statements, 6 months of check registers (I hope he can dechipher my chicken scratch....) and/or canceled checks, 2 years of tax returns, 6 months of pay stubs...you get the picture. There were also requests for other things like real estate docs, oil and gas docs and information on recently purchased autos, of which we don't have any of those.

I was really kind of surprised since all I've read here, it seems as though most people just were asked for 60 days of pay stubs/bank statements. I don't have a problem with getting the material together, but it does freak me out a bit. Is this possibly because I'm filing pro se, thus maybe the assumption of abuse is higher....?

I'm probably just paranoid. I have nothing to hide, but I also tend to get freaked out and intimidated about stuff, too. Like, how closely do they look at bank statements? Are they going to ask why I spent $450 at Costco, for example...? (the answer is I have 3 kids and they eat a lot!) Or why I buy so much at 7-11? (gas and milk!) I guess I'm wondering what level of scrutiny to expect.

I'm also freaking out, worrying that this trustee is hardcore and is looking to not allow the bankruptcy to go through....he's a bk attorney in town, but still. Filing bk is the means to an end and a chance for a fresh start--if it doesn't go through I don't know what I will do.

Any input/experiences would be appreciated!!!

[Priceless ProSe]

With out any more information, and assuming you are on the "up and up", I would guess that you are the 1/250, that is to say the trustee is supposed to randomly audit 1/250 (or is it 200) cases. Just provide them what they ask for, be as honest as possible, and you will be fine.

how are you on the means test? above the median income? sold real estate? own your own business?

[JRScott]

Some Trustees require more information than others and it varies from district to district as well. The level of information you are being required to show is not unusual actually. I would not overly worry about it.

Make sure he doesn't want the info before the 341.

Good Luck.

[TEW]

ummmm thats what I gave my lawyer. are you pro se doesn't your lawyer already have all of that?

opps i should have read your whole post sorry
but like i said thats what i had to give my lawyer. I don't think they care what you spent on milk/gas and that stuff.

Take a deep breath and stop worrying the trustee is looking for assets. And you are not in debtor prison.

[Tabbygirl]

With out any more information, and assuming you are on the "up and up", I would guess that you are the 1/250, that is to say the trustee is supposed to randomly audit 1/250 (or is it 200) cases. Just provide them what they ask for, be as honest as possible, and you will be fine.

how are you on the means test? above the median income? sold real estate? own your own business?

No, I'm below the median income, and haven't sold real estate nor do I own my own business. Heck, I'm a teacher and our salaries are even published on the school websites around here! Other than having been a complete idiot with regard to finances and having spent too much, I'm very much on the 'up and up.'

He just wants the info brought to the 341, which I thought was odd, too; maybe it's just a documentation requirement; I can't imagine him going through that much paper work in one meeting. In that regard, I pray that this is just procedural and doesn't mean a continuance.

[Tabbygirl]

ummmm thats what I gave my lawyer. are you pro se doesn't your lawyer already have all of that?

No, I'm pro se. No attorneys here. Which is also part of the reason I wonder if there is a presumption of dishonesty since I AM pro se, which also somewhat irritates me, since I know there are a slew of dishonest/disinterested attorneys out there.

[JRScott]

No, I'm pro se. No attorneys here. Which is also part of the reason I wonder if there is a presumption of dishonesty since I AM pro se, which also somewhat irritates me, since I know there are a slew of dishonest/disinterested attorneys out there.

That's the reason then, probably those are the standard papers that are to be filed with your petition in your district and being Pro Se you failed to do so. The Trustee is just sending the list to ensure he can finish your 341 on time rather than continuing it.

[Tabbygirl]

That's the reason then, probably those are the standard papers that are to be filed with your petition in your district and being Pro Se you failed to do so. The Trustee is just sending the list to ensure he can finish your 341 on time rather than continuing it.

Actually, the court here doesn't ask that any documentation be filed at the time of filing such as tax returns or anything else; I doubled-checked that about 3 times to make sure they didn't need anything other than the schedules/forms/et cetera when I initially filed.

Apparently the trustees here just decide what he or she wants with regard to tax forms, pay stubs and such, and contacts the person filing as to what to bring--so it's not a matter of my not providing/failing to provide what was needed; I filed everything that was asked for (being pro se, I wanted everything to be filed as accurately and flawlessly as possible for the very reason that I didn't have an attorney to fall back on).

[lillaimof2kids]

I had to submit all the papers you have to take with you. Yes, it's very time consuming! Hopefully it's just standard practice for your trustee. We haven't had any major issues with our case.

Best of luck to you!

[No Gravy]

You filed pro se, and you lived to tell about it. You are the wind beneath my wings!

[duplantisjj]

Hey Tabbygirl,

I'm also Pro Se, and lived through the 341 twice in two weeks.

Yes, like you, I received this list from the BK court of things to bring at the 341 and that they must be in a certain order. WELL I brought a small tree of paper there and was surprised to only be asked for my bank statement from the trustee... and his assistant wanted my past two yrs tax returns and the the means test....that was it!!!.....I mean.....I copied mortage deed, 2nd mortgage note, divorce papers, child custody, home insurance, car insurance, car title, a 3 inch stack of credit card invoices for last 6 months, home appraisal, etc, etc.......

Not that I wasn't really happy that they didn't ask more questions, but I spent many hours and used up tons of paper for nothing really. But I was prepared...

Don't worry, you seem to be a normal case for them and likely will be in and out in 5 minutes. I had to return because I messed up on some numbers on my Sch J and had to file an amended form. Even then, 2nd time around was easier, and I as even joking around with the Trustee. Nice guy...

[rfassett]

Must be a pro se thing. I was also a pro seer and I called the trustee's office as soon as I knew who had been assigned to my case and was told "tax returns, petition and pay stubs" was all she needed. Then I got a letter from the UST and the paperwork I sent to them (and duplicated the bk trustee per the UST instructions) approached four inches high. This included credit card statements for two years also. The grueling part was the Rule 2004 examination with the UST's attorney where we went through the credit card statements nearly page by page. I was eventually discharged but not before an incredible roller coaster ride. Good luck!

[AngelinaCatHub]

Must be a pro se thing. I was also a pro seer and I called the trustee's office as soon as I knew who had been assigned to my case and was told "tax returns, petition and pay stubs" was all she needed. Then I got a letter from the UST and the paperwork I sent to them (and duplicated the bk trustee per the UST instructions) approached four inches high. This included credit card statements for two years also. The grueling part was the Rule 2004 examination with the UST's attorney where we went through the credit card statements nearly page by page. I was eventually discharged but not before an incredible roller coaster ride. Good luck!

[rfassett]

There will be no mistake when you are dealing with the UST. You get correspondence on the DOJ's letterhead. The local bk trustee is the person assigned to your case by the bk court. I am not sure to what extent a bk trustee can hire professional help, ie, an attorney without having some way to pay that person. The only funds at the trustee's disposal is whatever he/she can get from the bk estate. My Rule 2004 examination was with a trial attorney with the UST / DOJ office. The correspondence requesting additional information was from a CPA working for the UST's office. The CPA does the analysis and refers his/her findings to the UST who determines what further action is necessary. That's my take.

[epiphany]

HOLY CRAP! I am SOL if anyone asks for check registers...I don't do 'em.

ep