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Just got back from 341 meeting (long)

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    Just got back from 341 meeting (long)

    Hot off the press.....

    I went to my 341 today. I barely got there on time because, I don't know if it was nerves or what, but I kept getting lost. But anyway, I walked up to the floor and there were a number of people standing in a hallway with doors to various rooms open or closed. The room I had to go to was closed so I opened the door and went in.

    It was set up like a meeting room with about 30 chairs in rows facing the front of the room with this huge desk with a legal-loooking plaque on the wall. The trustee was at the desk facing us and filling out paperwork.

    First he kind of called roll to see who was there. Some people were there with their lawyers, some were alone (like me), some were waiting for their lawyer who didn't show, and some lawyers were waiting for their client who didn't show or who had an excuse.

    Then, he made us all stand and swore us in. Then, he asked various questions and we all had to answer yes or no. If the answer we gave was not what he was looking for, we had to explain.

    For instance, one of the questions was: Has anything you stated on your schedules on the day you filed different today (I'm paraphrasing). The answer he was looking for was "no", so if you said "yes" you had to raise your hand and explain.

    Then, everyone sat down, and he called us one by one. Some cases were quick, and some took a little longer. There was a Pro Se debtor there whose case got continued because her paperwork was incomplete.

    My case was the most complicated, the trustee had to speak to me the longest, and I was the only one who had a creditor show up.

    For one thing, he didn't have my schedules. He asked me if I had completed them. I told him they were on Pacer. He said, "They weren't when we checked". Good thing I had another copy with me!

    Second of all, my case was complicated because I am being evicted, I just purchase a financed vehicle three months ago, almost everything I own is being held hostage by a moving company in another state, and I receive my mother's pension monthly because she died so early into her retirement.

    When he saw my paperwork, he asked me who helped me. I told him I did them myself. He said, "You know, this is a very professional job. You are highly underpaid (for my skill level)." Thanks Form7!

    But anyway, he basically told me he might have to take my pension as an asset. I will be receiving the payments until March 2008. I said, " I thought pensions and death benefits were exempt." He said, "It was exempt for HER. I don't know if it will be exempt for YOU."

    He said he had to research it and he needed to contact the retirement system to double-check. He told me not to call him, but to make absolutely sure that I keep my address updated with him so that he can call me.

    Also, the creditor was for my car. She was an attorney and was actually quite nice/impartial. I told her that I wasn't sure yet what I wanted to do about the car. She told me to keep in touch with her. I have a court date on September 13 about the car, but she said that if I reaffirm or if I surrender, either way, we won't have to bother with that court date. She said she would have to draw up a reaffirmation agreement, the finance company would have to agree, and we would have to be scheduled for a reaffirmation hearing. If I surrender the car, I would have to let the finance company know so that they can either come get it or I can bring it to them.

    Having said all of that, I must say this: "From God's ears to yours, if that trustee thinks that he is getting my mother's money that she worked SO hard for, I will withdraw that petition so fast it will make his head spin!"

    I will withdraw this petition, or I will convert to a Chapter 13. I'm going to weigh my options, but I will NOT let them take my mom's money, and that's that. I would rather work three jobs for five years to pay off my debts.

    That's all, folks!

    #2
    Well, the trustee has a point about the pension issue. I assume your mother passed away and you are receiving what is left of her pension.

    If that is the case, the trustee has a point, the probably are not exempt as to you. In most states, the pension/death benefits are exempt if you were a dependant of the first party beneficiary (your mother) at the time the benefits were earned.

    Second, in most cases, you cannot simply withdraw a chapter 7, you would have to make a motion to the court to withdraw the petition. Sometimes the trustee will stipulate to a withdrawl if you agree not to refile in 6 months. So yeah, you may need to convert to a 13 to protect that pension money.

    Comment


      #3
      She retired with a ten-year option and died in year four. That left six years that contiue to come to me, because I was listed as beneficiary.

      All that work, now I may have to hire a lawyer after all! I may need to go about converting to a Chapter 13.

      Comment


        #4
        After paying for a lawyer to fight it and paying into Chapter 13, you'll probably lose a good chunk of it anyway. I'm sure it's frustrating. Your mother worked hard to receive that money, and it's unfortunate she didn't get to enjoy it. However, you lived beyond your means, and now want to take what she worked hard for and still not pay your debts. Don't you think that's just a bit unfair?

        What about talking to the trustee about donating the pension to your mother's favorite charity or creating a memorial in her name?

        Comment


          #5
          Please don't assume that I filed bankruptcy because I "lived beyond my means". The majority of my debt is from student loans. The rest (almost $20,000.00) is from medical bills from surgery I had to have to save my life when I had no medical insurance. So, please don't judge.

          I have almost no credit card debt. Like, maybe $1,000.00, if that.

          Secondly, I need the pension money because all the jobs I have been able to find only pay about $9.50 per hour, and that is not enough money in this city to meet basic needs, like rent, groceries and transportation, much less the mountain of debt that I have.

          The pension is used as a supplement. When I wasn't working, it was used to pay my rent and utilities.

          The trustee wasn't even sure about the pension. That's why he said he had to do some research and would get back to me.

          If he does say he'll have to take it, then I'm definitely hiring a lawyer and switching to Chapter 13. Since I have already completed and filed nearly all the paperwork, hopefully that will save me some on attorney's fees. This may work better for me anyway, because then I will only have to pay the value of my car instead of the retail price. Plus, I'll be paying something towards my debts.

          Comment


            #6
            As usual Lightning is only half right. I agree with his last statement that if you lose the money anyway then you can do some good with it and give it to a charity in her name. BTW,,,Sorry about you loss. It's too late now for "woulda, coulda, shoulda", but for something so complex as bk more folks should use a lawyer. I have been working 50 hours a week and using the extra $$ to hire my atty next month. He is more money then others I spoke with but he was recommended by many other lawyers for handling ch13 cases and I will not go into this bk lions cage w/o a good atty. His fees are cheaper then my 60k debt so he is a good investment.

            Good luck to you whatever you decide to do.
            Last edited by hhou812hh; 08-17-2005, 06:23 PM.

            Comment


              #7
              Originally posted by originalhealer
              Please don't assume that I filed bankruptcy because I "lived beyond my means". The majority of my debt is from student loans
              You can't discharge student loans in bankruptcy. When borrowing money for college, you have to make a logical financial decision. Borrowing $100k for a degree that earns $25k isn't a good financial move.
              Originally posted by originalhealer
              The rest (almost $20,000.00) is from medical bills from surgery I had to have to save my life when I had no medical insurance. So, please don't judge.
              Health insurance is vital if you want to be financially secure. I understand that sometimes things fall through the cracks, but you make it sound like your mother's hard-earned money should be spent on something noble. What would you have done about the medical bills if you hadn't inherited?
              Originally posted by originalhealer
              Secondly, I need the pension money because all the jobs I have been able to find only pay about $9.50 per hour, and that is not enough money in this city to meet basic needs, like rent, groceries and transportation, much less the mountain of debt that I have.
              What would you have done if your mother hadn't died and left you her pension? You don't want to use the money to pay for your debts because your mother worked hard for that money, but you think you deserve it because you can't earn enough to survive. I don't get it.

              Comment


                #8
                I am sure you posted about your student loans in another thread (and maybe the can be discharged), but I will take this one step furhter, why did you even file BK, you can't do anything with the student loans, and your only $20K in debt for doctors that provided you valuable service (the saved your life as you say).

                I think I agree with lightening on this one.

                And if you can't afford to live in the city your in, move to a different city. There is obviously no career tying you to city and by your own admission you have only been able to find crap jobs...

                I hope you are able to find an attorney, but I think you run into some trouble as most BK attoneys don't like to jump into an already filed case.

                Comment


                  #9
                  Okay,

                  1. I am a teacher by profession, but I am not certified in my state. Therefore, I am having difficulty getting hired and that's why I am having to take "crappy jobs".

                  2. That is why I am working on my Master's in Education, and that is what I am using the student loans for, so I can get certified.

                  3. I filed bankruptcy because I was being evicted, unemployed, and about to lose everything that I own and that also belonged to my mother, to a moving company that has my things in their storage until I pay them $4,000.

                  4. I would love to have health insurance, but outside of an employer's group plan, it is extremely expensive and there was no money left at the end of the month to pay for it.

                  5. I am sure I am not the first person who asked an attorney to help them convert from a Chapter 7 to a Chapter 13. Yes, I may have some difficulty, but there is likely SOMEONE out there that is willing to do it.

                  Comment


                    #10
                    P.S. I knew all along that the student loans are non-dischargeable. But the $20K in medical bills, plus some other small miscellaneous debts being discharged will help me to manage the debt that I have left more easily.

                    Geez! I guess everyone wants to gang up on me today.

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Another thing, Lightening,

                      My mother may not be happy about me being in debt, but she would rather that the money she worked hard for be spent on ME, her daughter, rather than some stranger that means nothing to her.

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Thanks for sharing your 341 experience. Ours is coming up in 2 weeks.

                        One way you could look at it, if the Trustee can take the pension, is that it would be like your mom paid for your medical treatment. So in a real sense, her hard work did not go to waste. Although if your income is real low, wouldn't he have to leave some of it (as being part of your regular income) for your monthly expenses?

                        Once we file, I guess a lot of it is out of our control. Keep us posted.

                        Comment


                          #13
                          No one wants to gang up on you. I only felt seeing a lawyer could have saved you the trouble with the pension since lawyers are paid to tell you the best route to take. Hopefully you can get into a 13 in it's current form and possibly buy some health insurance which is considered by most reasonable people a "reasonable living expense".
                          I actually did mention on other posts though that more people (unless disabled) should make their best effort to pay back even a portion to medical professionals since (in your case especially) some of us wouldn't be alive without them.

                          Good luck!

                          Comment


                            #14
                            FreshStarter, that's another way to look at it. And I do think he would have to leave some. The way he was talking, he sounded as if he should also get retroactive payments from last year!

                            But I just did some research online, and I don't think he can take it. It is not a private pension, it is a state pension. My mom worked for the state for 25 years.

                            I read that ERISA-qualified pensions cannot be used to pay creditors because technically, they don't belong to me, therefore, they are not part of my bankruptcy estate.

                            Last year, I tried to get them to advance me a monthly payment, and they basically said, "NO." So, I guess that means the fund isn't really mine.

                            hhou812hh, even if I go through with the Ch 7, I actually plan to pay at least something towards some of the discharged debts. I anticipate that I won't always be struggling, and when I have more money, nothing is stopping me from paying. But there is a difference between paying volunatarily, and being obligated/sued/garnished to pay.

                            Comment


                              #15
                              I have to disagree on the medical bill issue. My wife and I went w/o insurance for awhile and everytime I went into a doctor's office it was like writing a big blank check. It seems every time I walk through the door it was an open invitaion for 3 or 4 different companies to send me bills for stuff I might or might not have had done. Medical billing is the biggest scam this country has going and something needs to be done about it.

                              Also on the debt repayment issue. Don't worry about your debts once they are gone. Just concentrate on getting your self in a position so this won't happen again.

                              Comment

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