SSDI income - does anyone know if ....

[tkd]

we have to include the SSDI income for just me or if the disability income for the kids is also included in our income?

In my earlier post, I listed total disability for the household and I am wondering if we even have to include the kids.

mine is 1160 per mo
each child gets 193 per mo

we could lose this disability at anytime. The government website states that I should expect to recertify in July of 2006, but it could come up as soon as October 2005.

I had a bone marrow transplant and so far I cannot be released to go back to work, but I need to get trained for another profession so that I can work off of my feet. Maybe I should look at going to school and the costs associated with that before filing?

Thanks for any help!
tkd

[HHM]

You need to list all sources of income. Obviously you want to explain the situation in your petition, and claim the proper exemptions for the SSDI, etc.

When it comes things like SSI, and SSDI, you need to enter it in two different places on the petition. First, you enter it as an Asset on Schedule B (Personal Property), and then claim the corresponding exemption on Schedule C. Then, you put the money as "income" on Schedule I.

[freshstarter]

Even if you don't list disability as an asset and exemption on the forms, they still can't take it, right?

Our disability payments are listed as and used as income. We don't have a pile of it.

[HHM]

The Asset of SSDI is "your right to receive" SSDI. By listing it as an asset and claiming the exemption, the trustee cannot intercept the payments.

However, when it comes to income, that is a different question. SSDI is still a factor in the disposible income test to see whether they want to push you into a chapter 13. So, if between any employment income and yoru regular SSI and SSDI payments, you have more income then expenses, the US trustee may file a motion to convert your case to a chapter 13.

[freshstarter]

The Asset of SSDI is "your right to receive" SSDI. By listing it as an asset and claiming the exemption, the trustee cannot intercept the payments.
.

But even if not listed as an asset and exemption, how could the trustee possibly take away your right to receive it if its part of your regular income and is being used up by the expenses??

Also, I don't remember seeing this listed in my state's exemptions...I guess it's federal....

[HHM]

Just list it as an asset for crying out loud, what is the big deal?

But yes, its an exemption imbeded in the Social Security Act. But I don't have the statute quote handy.

[tkd]

disability income and the laws

I do believe that it depends on what state you are in. I have been looking all over for answers, but will hopefully find out for sure on Tuesday at the lawyers.

Yes, the disability should be listed as an asset. But, as far as exemptions go, the state of Ohio (my state), only allows the state exemptions. There is a federal exemption for up to $600 per month of disability income. - But I am not sure if that is allowed in Ohio. Either way - list it.

Thanks for everyone's input,
tkd

[HHM]

A note on exemptions.

First, there are state exemptions, and then there are Federal Bankruptcy Exemptions (which are found in the BK code, 11 USC 522).

Second, states have the option to opt out of the Federal BK exemptions and have their own exemptions, or have their own exemptions but allow use of Federal BK Exempions. If a state has completely opted out of the Federal Bankruptcy Exemptions, and you live in that state, you can't use the Federal Bankruptcy Exemptions at all.

Third, not all exemptions are found in the specific exemptions statute. For example, the general exemptions in Nevada are found in NRS 21.090. However, exemptions for certain type of life insurance proceeds, workers comp etc, are found in the specific statues that govern those area. Likewise with other federal programs, i.e. Social Security, even if Ohio has opted out of the Federal "Bankruptcy" exemption, other federal exemptions will still apply (hence, this is why I am drawing a distinction between Federl BK exemptions, found in the BK code, and just plain Federal Exemptions). The exmptions for Social security I believe is under 42 USC 407, VA benefits are under 38 USC 3101 (but I don't have my reference in front of me). You still claim these federal exemptions notwithstanding your states opting out.

If your interested, the reason these exemptions still apply is because these are purely federal programs and state law cannot preempt federal law. So when the Social Security Act says, SSI benefits cannot be levied, garnished, attached etc, the states cannot usurp that right.

The reason you have to list it, is you have list all assets.

When it comes to money assets like SSI. Even though its an exempt asset, for Chapter 13 purposes, it does represent a regular source of income and if your expenses do not meet or exceed ALL your sources of income, you will be but in a chapter 13.

[freshstarter]

If I need to amend the schedules anyway, is it worth it to also amend to put in the SSDI as an asset in schedule b, and exempt it in schedule c? If so, do I just put it in as "Not part of estate" or do I need to put in a dollar amount? How do you figure a dollar amount for monthly payments anyway? Should it go under a wild card, or does it have its own law to exempt?

[HHM]

As for amount on schedule B, just list the monthly benefit.

Also, I forgot to mention, I think you are technically right in that you probably don't need to list the exemption for SSDI so long as you mention that you are receiving SSDI, but since you have to list it on schedule B, you should list the exemption. However, where the exemptions come in handy is for bank accounts. If all (or part) of the money in your checking account was SSDI, you need to claim the SSDI exemption for the amount that you are claiming is exempt.

[freshstarter]

As for amount on schedule B, just list the monthly benefit.

Also, I forgot to mention, I think you are technically right in that you probably don't need to list the exemption for SSDI so long as you mention that you are receiving SSDI, but since you have to list it on schedule B, you should list the exemption. However, where the exemptions come in handy is for bank accounts. If all (or part) of the money in your checking account was SSDI, you need to claim the SSDI exemption for the amount that you are claiming is exempt.

ok, thanks... already put our bank accounts amount in the exemptions for wild card so that should be that? Is it ok for schedule b to show a higher amount than schedule c? I mean its sort of listed twice if its already in the bank account ... should I change the bank account amount though to match the exact amount that was in there the date it was filed (or the date we filled out the forms) ? We estimated an amount so its not exact.

Maybe I should itemize each bank account (I lumped them together - same bank) since one is only SSDI money?? How about if I just add mention of the SSDI next to that bank account listing on both schedule b & c so the same money is not listed twice.

[freshstarter]

Also...I can't figure out where the SSDI goes on schedule b???

[HHM]

Also...I can't figure out where the SSDI goes on schedule b???

Other Asset

[freshstarter]

This is what protects ssdi:
42 USCS 407

[brokemommy]

just trolling a thread for any responses I am all ears.