Chp. 7 questions

[FXDBLOCKHEAD]

Close to filing Ch.7 the next few weeks.

Here's a summary of the situation: $225K in unsecured CC debit, mortgage and taxes up to date. Home furnishings and other misc. stuff below limits. Own 3 cars outright, 2 of which are slightly over limit by a couple $K, and a motorcycle with a wholesale value of $6-7K. House equity is boarderline to the limit. This is a possible issue. $10K Cash on hand, 2 children age 13 & 18. Lawyer says we can file chp. 7 and thru the review process might decline our filing and suggect switching to Chp. 13.

Husband presently unemployed, past income $100K+ range.
Wife income $46K (just employed after 18 years of staying home raising kids)
Wife's income covers mortgage and just enough to cover living expense's.

Questions:

* What are the ramifications of husband not being employed now or if employment found after filing? Industry has all but callapsed so reaching this income level again soon is questionable.

* 3rd car is son's who thru parttime work purchased car with own money but for insurance purpose title is in my name. The value of the car is $3K.

* I am assuming that the court will take 2 cars and the motorcycle? How is this 3rd car looked at and is there any way to protect my sons interest in this without the count taking it? And if parents cars are above limits and we need cars to get to work how is that delt with?

* Is there any harm by trying chp. 7 and seeing if it will go thru?

TIA

[StaciMM]

Regarding the extra equity in the vehicles-I believe you would have the option of paying that to the court, though I don't know the timeframe. Is the cash on hand enough to cover the extra? Would probably lose the motorcycle...

Seems like your current budget would not allow ch 13 payments, so my best thought is to start as chapter 7 and face the 13 if that becomes an issue.

[Whittio]

what amazes me is the banks willing to LET people get $225 in unsecured credit. Isn't that just asking for a problem? I think these lenders should be held liable for what they do to people.

I mentioned this on another thread recently. I was trying to consolidate all our debt, I asked my $10k maxed card for a $5k increase so I could consolidate. I got a letter saying that due to our income and current debt, they couldn't raise my limits.. BUT, when I went to pay my bill online, I discovered my credit limit had been raised to $18k+ Why?? when they know my income and my debt, they STILL offer me 8k+ idiots!

Anyway.. I think what I have found on this forum about employment AFTER filing, is that what you make after is yours?? do some searching on that to be sure.

Good luck to you. Sorry I couldn't be of more help.

[Lightning]

Not everyone with high credit card limits maxes them out. That means, by logic, that banks cannot be to blame.

Look in the mirror for the cause of your high unsecured debt.

[Whittio]

Well now that was a bit rude wasn't it Lightning?! After all, I am not here about MY OWN bk., so looking in the mirror won't do me any good.

My point is.. WHY do banks keep giving more and more credit when they see clearly on our credit reports what we owe, and we disclose what we make. It stands to REASON that if you have $50k or more in unsecured debt, that MAYBE you shouldn't get MORE credit?

This really has nothing to do with MAXING out anything. But thanks for your input all the same.

[Lightning]

It doesn't matter why banks give credit. How you use it is up to you. If you misuse it, it's completely your fault. You have total control over how you use credit cards.

It is as simple as that.

[Whittio]

Yeah, well we all aren't perfect like you are apparently. And things DO come up, in which credit MUST be used because $40k a year in California doesn't go far for a family of 5 these days. It's not my fault that my husbands income hasn't gone up as fast as our expenses have. Gosh, just gas along has gone up 100% for us in the last year. Our income didn't jump at all!

I think you need to get off your high horse and stop criticizing everyone around here. I just looked back through all your posts, and I don't see many that weren't condescending. People don't need crap like this from you. We all know WHY we're in debt, and yes, it's our fault, but if we didn't get 100's of offers every month for MORE credit, maybe we wouldn't be in such a DEEP hole.

I haven't found any posts from you that even explain WHY you're here, other then just to make people feel a bit worse about themselves. Maybe you need to find another pass time to keep you busy??

[Lightning]

You're not doing yourself any favors by placing any blame on the credit card companies.

You're also not doing any one else any favors by spreading misinformation stating that credit card companies are at fault because they give high limits.

I'm posting here to correct you. Credit card companies are completely blame-free when it comes to credit card debt. They issue a card. That's it. You choose how to use it. You choose how much to charge. You choose how much to pay every month.

You (the credit card holder) has so much power. Why do you want to give it up? Why don't you want to take control of your own financial life?

[Whittio]

I didn't put ALL the blame on the credit card companies, it's MY OPINION that if they didn't GIVE us so much credit, we couldn't ABUSE IT!

Now.. thanks for "posting here to correct me".. but I have my opinions, you have yours. If credit card companies didn't give me and everyone else so much credit, then I wouldn't be in debt now would I? They keep raising my limits (even though they send me a letter and say I don't qualify for a $5k increase, well, if they KNOW I don't qualify, then WHY did they raise it $8k+ instead?!)

Yes, the card holder is the responsible party. I understand that, but if the CC companies didn't give me what I shouldn't have, then hey, maybe I wouldn't be in the position I am in.. (as well as others here).

I am talking hypothetically here, as a reminder I am not filing BK for myself, but for my mom. She didn't abuse her credit cards on frivolous things, she had 3 major surgeries in 3 years and was off work for almost 3.5 years and lived off of her cards. She paid her hospital bills slowly but surly, and tried to repay her cc debt, but it's just a vicious cycle, she pays $500 a month, charges $400..

My point to you is, stop pointing your finger at everyone and claiming we have made our own problems. sometimes problems just happen, and you have to deal with them the best way you can. Obviously you're not here for the same reason 99% of us are, so what exactly is your agenda?? Just to make everyone here feel a little more worthless?

[InDebtInMD]

Close to filing Ch.7 the next few weeks.

I would file before Oct 17, so that you may fall under the old law.

With that much unsecured debt, you may draw the scrutiny of the US Trustee. That is not necessarily a dealbreaker, however.

We had $143k in unsecured cc debt, and the US Trustee (well, a paralegal from the office) showed up at our 341 in June. She asked us a few questions about our expenses, and asked for a few paystubs. In the end, we ended up staying in Chapter 7. What was going on here was the US Trustee was trying to disallow some expenses hoping to generate some disposable income we could use to pay into a Ch 13 plan.

I figured we would be OK, as all our expenses were legitimate and when estimating things like home repairs I used IRS guidelines. What helped to seal the deal I think was the fact that we unexpectedly found out my wife was expecting a 3rd child after we filed. My lawyer mentioned this at the 341 (I told him about it while we were waiting our turn), emphasizing that our expenses were likely to go up once the baby arrives. (PS - we found out it's a girl!! Nice change of pace after 2 boys )

Anyway, since your husband lost his job I'm guessing the loss of income should help to keep you in chapter 7.

Is your 18 yr old still a dependent? If he is not you may not be able to claim his expenses (not sure about this, but it is certainly worth looking into)

Will you be able to exepmt the $10k in cash?

Anyway, good luck with all this, and please keep us updated!

[sunshine08]

I thought one of the main purposes of this forum was to share information with others about our experiences with bankruptcy, etc. I don't think Whittio meant any harm in expressing an opinion. Yes, we are all responsible for our actions. But, I am sure that 99% of the people that file bankruptcy do not intentionally run up a bunch of bills just so they can file bankruptcy every 7 - 10 years.
When I incurred debt, I had every intention, as well as the means to pay the money back. Sometimes bad things happen to good people. Maybe I should have saved more, spent less, not had unexpected expenses..... I tried debt consolidation, that was a rip off. Tried working with each creditor, that didn't go anywhere until I suggested they call my attorney and then several would have settled for 1/2. (i wish I had half).
Personally, I think the blame is 50-50. (sue me if you don't like my opinion- but get in line) I truly think that the credit card companies want a certain percentage of the loss. Like stores want a percentage of shoplifters or bad checks. How else are they going to get such an easy tax write off.
Nobody said life was fair. Lightening, how about doing a personal message if you have a grief with a post
Now to get back to the question at hand. Go thru some of the post here, check out what expenses and amounts are allowable for your state. Look at the wildcard allowance. Make sure you go thru your expenses and that you didn't forget anything. Also remember that your lawyer has seen this and probably has a good idea of what the trustees will do. Also, it is what your income is when you file. They do look at the past, but we all know what the job market is now. You should be able to keep 2 vehicles at least and pay the overage back to the court. I did see, when we went to the 341 meeting where the monies difference was close and the trustee said he wasn't going thru the hassle for that amount. Good luck and keep us posted.

[Minnymouth]

Well, guesss I'm going to have to get out my 'UGLY STICK" and beat Lightening again.

He's right about some issues - just has a RUDE WAY of stating his opinions........

Many file BK because they really don't pay any attention to their finances until its too late......then there is no other way out.

Yes many of us need to be more responsible for our actions....

BE NICE LIGHTENING.............we're not here to pass judgement on anyone - we're here to support, and help if we can as they go thru the BK process.

Minny

[davidb81]

Minny's right, we are all here because in some form or another we made mistakes. And as for looking in the mirror, thats exactly what I did and I came to the conclusion that I could not pay these debts. But I won't let the cc companies or empires go unblamed. the day I turned 18 I recieved a credit card that I didn't even apply for. Yes we have to be responsible for our actions, but no one can blow sunshine up my shorts and tell me that these snakes are innocent of all of this. they thrive on our mistakes. personally I think Bk is an act of responsibilty for most.

[Lightning]

You cannot get a credit card without agreeing to the terms of use. I've never once heard of a bank sending someone a credit card without the person approving an application, but if you're going to stand by your statement, then you could have called the bank, canceled it, and cut it in half.

How is it the bank's fault that you walked into a store and charged things you didn't have money to pay for?

Credit card companies have no blame.

The more you believe they do, the more you become a helpless victim who will never achieve financial success.

[FXDBLOCKHEAD]

Hey Lightning how about preaching on some other board. This is my post where I am trying to get some information and its being cluttered up with your bu!!sh!t NOW F^%# off...........