Lightening - please respond

[sunshine08]

LIGHTENING - Pray tell us all what, if any, is your claim to fame? Is your cup half empty. Personally, mine is always at least half full.
I hope that you never get to the point that a large catastrophe or long suffering major illness befalls you or a loved one, or that you lose your source of income, etc. Alot of those things would cripple even the "most financially well prepared." Insurance will only pay so much, savings can be depleted and if you outwright own everything you have, they can be taken and sold to pay your debts. It takes money to live, you can't control everyday life. You can try and compensate by saving money and living within your means. No one is guaranteed tommarrow.
Would you be able to live off minimum wage without assistance. How much can you save? Suppose that is the only job you can get? There are alot of educated, well trained people in this country out of work. Would you as an employer hire a rocket scientist or a high school drop out to bag groceries? Doesn't the high price of gas meake a dent in your wallet? Are you guaranteed to be free from serious long term illness.
I am not trying to pass judgement on you or anyone else. I enjoy hearing other people's opinions, but you need to get a life.

[StaciMM]

My 2 cents worth... Lightning has information to share, though his choice of HOW he delivers messages is less than desirable. He is not here to help anyone, and doesn't care that he brings more disruption than help. He LIKES being judgemental, pointing fingers, etc.

Trying to understand him, or get him to understand the 'supportive' view point is a wasted effort.

[dmg]

I don't want to start anything, especially since I also had a reply from Lightning that wasn't too pleasant, but it just seems to me that everyone is doing the same thing that they complained about him doing ... bashing someone.

Although I don't always appreciate what is said, I do realize that there are a lot of different opinions out there. I would prefer someone being honest with me on their thoughts than just saying what I would want to hear. (Although with that said, sometimes it could be said a little more gently, but I'm a wimp when it comes to getting criticizism.)

I just wanted to say that these threads directed to Lightning just seem to be doing the same thing that people are complaining about him doing. Just my two cents.

[sunshine08]

You are probably right. I apologize! Lightening and all the others in this forum have and are entitled to their own opinion. My point was only to point out that we all have our reasons for filing. If he has not had to file, I am glad for him and his individual circumstances. Things just aren't always black and white, there is alot of gray. We are where we are and all most of us want is some advice to get us thru the situtation and the ability to see what we can do in the future to prepare our selves to spend money and use credit more wisely. I don't want to be patted in the back for filing bankruptcy, I made the decision I have to live with. I came here to "get educated" on the process and ramifications.

[Lightning]

LIGHTENING - Pray tell us all what, if any, is your claim to fame? Is your cup half empty. Personally, mine is always at least half full.

Mine is half full.

I hope that you never get to the point that a large catastrophe or long suffering major illness befalls you or a loved one, or that you lose your source of income, etc.

Usually when people make those sort of statements, they actually secretly hope the person does fall upon hard times so they can laugh and poke fun. If you truly wish me well, then thank you. I wish everyone well. I tell people how to do it.

Alot of those things would cripple even the "most financially well prepared." Insurance will only pay so much, savings can be depleted and if you outwright own everything you have, they can be taken and sold to pay your debts. It takes money to live, you can't control everyday life. You can try and compensate by saving money and living within your means. No one is guaranteed tommarrow.

You're absolutely right. Catastrophes happen. We can only prepare the best we can. As I've said before, I've only seen a handful of people who have filed bankruptcy for purely catastrophic live events that couldn't be prepared for. The majority of bankruptcy filers simply spent more than they earned.

Why did you file?

Would you be able to live off minimum wage without assistance.

I wouldn't have to work for minimum wage. I have a good job and have interviewed and been offered other jobs that pay as much, more, or less than what I earn now. I know I can find a job. I also have 1 year of expenses saved in cash as a reserve. That means I could easily live on minimum wage for that long and still have money left in the bank. I live on less than half of what I currently bring home. I can survive a substantial pay cut.

How much money do you have in the bank? How much of your earnings do you use for living expenses, and how much do you save?

How much can you save? Suppose that is the only job you can get?

No matter how much you earn, you can always save some. Even if it's a few dollars a week. Save first, spend later.

What percentage of your current income do you save to savings accounts or retirement accounts?

There are alot of educated, well trained people in this country out of work.

Yes. Many could find jobs that pay less, but unfortunately many people simply will not lower their standard of living.

Are you willing to live in a smaller house, drive a cheaper car, wear used clothing, eat meals at home, etc.?

Would you as an employer hire a rocket scientist or a high school drop out to bag groceries?

I'd hire a responsible person with good references and a good work ethic for such a job.

Would you turn such a person away because they were more educated than you?

Doesn't the high price of gas meake a dent in your wallet?

No. I spend very little on gas because I live close to work. Gasoline is a non-renewable resource. It will get more expensive and more scarce, and I do what I can to reduce my usage.

Do you live close to work? If not, why?

Are you guaranteed to be free from serious long term illness.

That's a ridiculous question for which you already know the answer. No one is guaranteed perfect health until death. I have health and disability insurance and substantial savings. I do the best I can possibly do.

Do you have health and disability insurance?

I am not trying to pass judgement on you or anyone else. I enjoy hearing other people's opinions, but you need to get a life.

Of course you're passing judgment. Your whole post is full of judgment. Stating you're not doing so, doesn't mean you're not.

[tinroofrusted]

Wow.

I only have one life to live, and if I die tomorrow, I am thankful and glad to report to the Man Upstairs that my whole life didn't revolve around money.

[smallchange]

Has it ever occured to anyone that some people making nice,easy livings off the interest and outrageous fees charged to the honest working man and the vulnerable low wage earners of society,also may visit these forums for reasons far different than most of us? I take some peoples comments with a grain of salt and try to learn the answers to my questions from the experiences shared by people in my situation. Members of the A.B.A have nothing i can use.

[sunshine08]

Lightening - Thank you for your reply. But I don't think you have answered the question as to why "you" are in this forum?? Have you filed bankruptcy???Yes, I have a good job, decent insurance, disabiltity insurance and a retirement plan. I do not wish you or anyone any misfortune. I only mentioned unemployment, illness, etc. because those aren't things neccessarily in our control. Yes, I do have some savings, not as much as I would like. My parents depended on my financial help due to a long term and serious illness. I have children. One still at home. My father died and my mother lives with me. She helped me to be able to go back to school so that I could get an education, she babysat for me. Now it is my turn to help her. She is not in the best health either and I help supplement her income. I live 7 miles from work, but my husband's job entails he drive about 700 miles a week. i do economize when driving. I run errands while in town and take the shortest route. My husband has looked for a job closer, but due to his health and age, with the economy in our area, he hasn't found one closer. Do you have a family you support/help support?
I am not trying to walk a mile in your shoes, nor you mine. I file because of medical bills and lightening hit my house (insurance does not pay for everything - no water, all major appliances affected, insurance doesn't reimburse you for taking clothes to laundry mat etc.) We have also been in 2 hurricanes, (in fact am in # 3 now as I type). We started a business from home in hopes my husband could be home more often, but due to the economy was not sufficent to do that. Was only done parttime. My son was in a wreck, (not his fault, was a passenger) and hasn't been able to go back to work yet. My employment is good, but I work for the government and they haven't been giving many raises in the last 7-8 years. Gas was less than $1 a gallon four years ago. Milk was about $2 a gallon. Now gas is $3+ and milk is $4+ a gallon. Do the math. Homeowners, property tax, sales tax, clothes, etc. get higher each year. No, I rarely go out to eat. I take my lunch to work. Have a garden. Have you ever eaten deer meat? Better and cheaper than beef. The proce of one or two bullets, % of hunting license etc. I get fish, crabs and shrimp from the local fisherman. I don't spend a lot on clothes, I buy on clearance and end od season sales. What is a vacation?
I truly am glad that you seem to be in text-book good financial shape. I hope to attain that goal myself. These statements are not made with any sarcasm, I truly do mean that.
But I do have empathy for hardships of others. Yes, I do agree that pulling out plastic was easier than pulling out cash. I plead guilty to that on some occassions. But I have paid for much of the debt that I have incurred and did try the debt consolidation route. Company I dealt with was a rip off. I have not applied for any new credit and we live on a budget and try and factor in for the unforseen.
WHAT DID YOU MEAN BY - "I TELL PEOPLE HOW TO DO IT." ??
My expenses vary as does my income. I buy in bulk. I haven't been to the movie theater in years. I rarely rent videos, friends lend them to us. I hardly watch tv, I have a yard and house to keep up and my mother and son to take to dr. appointments. I have basic cable (my mother pays for that) I have dial-up internet, which I get a discount on. I mow my own yard and take my own trash to the dump. I love to work overtime or a parttime job, when my primary job allows. I am on call a lot. I am paying for my education, not the government or my parents. I am extremely self sufficient. I don't live in the ritzy neighborhood nor drive expensive cars. I do many of my own home repairs. Expecially painting.
I hope I answered all your comments. You have some important things to say - they just come out sounding very condoscending to a lot of us. That is just my two cents worth, for what it counts. Remember, bankruptcy is legal, companies do it all the time. Many rich and famous people have filed bankruptcy. Nobody is perfect and we have to live with the consequences of our decisions. Bankruptcy does have its consequences.

[hhou812hh]

Lightning has some valid points regarding how we are the spoiled generation and must have the biggest and the best. (This doesn't apply to you who have had catastrophic events take place). Some of us do have unreasonable expenses and lousy spending habits.

I however wonder why we are the entire blame of all this abuse and the cc companies are angels and Lightning always seems to side with them. I am over extended and was a few days late with a payment so I called MBNA to let them know I just mailed it and the lady knowing all this tried to introduce me to a "special offer" another balance transfer and I said NO twice. She then said that I "qualify" to have my car loan balance transfered to them and when I said no again she still kept talking, so I said "bye" and hung up.

Oh and by the way Chase, Citi, MBNA & Bank of America all again sent me more convenience checks with credit line increases still even though I can barely afford to pay back what I currently owe.

Lighting, while I am at fault for my problems do you have sympathy for these people doing all this? I know college student that get offers too even though they make $3000 a year if that.

How can they all do this and not share some of the blame for the record bankruptcies.

[sunshine08]

I agreed to that. Am guilty to a certain extent of the same thing. I have learned alot about managing money and the value of savings.
MBNA was the only card that wouldn't work with us when we went to them and tried to work out some type of payment plan (just a joke but do you think Lightening works there?)
Really didn't have problems with our many cards until it seemed Citibank or Chase brought the cards out. You have to be able to see the fine print to read it. Besides even if you don't use the card after they have a new set of rules, you are governed by the "new" rules. unless you are able to pay off that car or do a balance transfer.

[hhou812hh]

I agreed to that. Am guilty to a certain extent of the same thing. I have learned alot about managing money and the value of savings.
MBNA was the only card that wouldn't work with us when we went to them and tried to work out some type of payment plan (just a joke but do you think Lightening works there?)
Really didn't have problems with our many cards until it seemed Citibank or Chase brought the cards out. You have to be able to see the fine print to read it. Besides even if you don't use the card after they have a new set of rules, you are governed by the "new" rules. unless you are able to pay off that car or do a balance transfer.

I don't know. Lightning is a "special case". I know several people that work in banks and they tell me all the time that their own employers are "outragous" with their credit card rules and ask for trouble. And these are just the people that work there collecting a paycheck that think we are getting scammed.

[copper2]

Lightening Bolt

Hi Lightening, We'll you certainly stir the pot! The Bankruptcy Forum has a byline stating, "Life Has It's Ups and Downs." It does not read, "Why Keep Paying?" Of course, your attitude is driving Bankruptcy Reform, exactly what credit card companies want. They don't want you to see the 45 million dollar lawsuits they can't write off, nor the 75 million dollar fines by the FTC they can't report on their Profit/Loss. You don't hear about it when they march to Washington and lobby to deregulate fees. It's those Deadbeat Bankrupts, they cry! Simple Math, Lightening. Are you familiar with the Book of Job? Maybe you have not read it, but it is the archetypal story of a man who had it all figured out, had far more savings than you, and yet more Sunday mornings are devoted to his experience of being wiped out than almost any other topic. Why is that? I find it paradoxical that you live in the greatest capitalist nation on the planet, watch labor outsourcing to the lowest bidder, feel the profit motive throughout our healthcare system and our trillion dollar National Deficit and get on this Forum and are upset at this miniscule population who is voluntarily going to court, not the pub, to cleanse themselves of credit card debt. Why don't do something useful like advocate for Responsible Spending in our schools? (Have you heard of predatory lending?) They have not even started their lives! You don't go there because you would be shut down, shut up or assassinated by the very credit card companies you defend, that's why! I guess this is a safer place to speak your mind!

[sunshine08]

My feelings were just why is lightening on this forum. He doesn't answer that question. Is he self employed or dependant on a job. There are many people in the unemployment line that are victims of circumstances, that are good, honest, hardworking people. They have families, bills, probably have credit cards, that purchased responsibly, based on their income, but do to long time unemployment, have exhausted savings and are having a hard time finding employment. I guess lightening doesn't know that this country has an unemployment problem. Most of us do know why we are in our circumstances or @ least if it was due to just excessive spending, how we can do things differently. I can't change anything in the past, I can only look forward to the future.
Two airlines declared bankruptcy yesterday. Big companies swallow little mom and pop businesses. Even some farms are run by corporations. What excuses do the large companies use to declare bankruptcy, only the upper managment that are responsible continue to get their paychecks, bonuses, etc., because they know when to get out and how to protect themselves personally. The people that run the corporation into bankruptcy are responsible not "the corporation." I guess that tells us to change our names and do it again. Go back and look at all the famous or rich people that have filed for bankruptcy, they never stopped living the high life. Lightening go find them - offer to be their financial planner.

[Minnymouth]

OK FOLKS!!!!!!

I THINK "LIGHTENING" MAY HAVE GOTTEN THE "POINT"......
but doesn't mean he'll pay any attention to it......

It's time to get back to "support and opinions" for those filing BK.... especially new people.....

We don't want "new-comers" thinking this is a SOUNDING BOARD FOR PEOPLE WHO DON'T LIKE PEOPLE WHO CLAIM BK!!!

Ours is a SUPPORT FORUM......Let's try to keep it that way, OK....

Just my opinion,

Minny

[HHM]

OK FOLKS!!!!!!

I THINK "LIGHTENING" MAY HAVE GOTTEN THE "POINT"......
but doesn't mean he'll pay any attention to it......

It's time to get back to "support and opinions" for those filing BK.... especially new people.....

We don't want "new-comers" thinking this is a SOUNDING BOARD FOR PEOPLE WHO DON'T LIKE PEOPLE WHO CLAIM BK!!!

Ours is a SUPPORT FORUM......Let's try to keep it that way, OK....

Just my opinion,

Minny

That sums it up nicely.