Am I too late?

[wing]

Yes I'm the queen of procrastination this should have been done months ago.

I have most of my paperwork filled out for a ch7, but I have so many stupid questions I really think I need a lawyer. Mine is truly a "no asset" case, I don't even own a car anymore! I've sold everything of any value because my income is still laughable (under $500 a month lately) and I've lived with my retired parents since my divorce (how or will this affect them?) Most of my questions have to do with my divorce, and all the fun things that have happened since then, and all of my 20K debt is of the unsecured credit card/repo/vet bill type. I have money I was saving for another car, but I've been taking the bus this long, should I spend it on a lawyer and get this done now instead? or is it too late anyway?

Will anyone with credit card debt be able to file a ch7 after Oct 17th?

[TatteredInTexas]

No, it should not have any impact on your parents. Yes, you need to get it done now, if you expect to get in under the old law.

The new laws are going to be much different and more stringent on what can and cannot be discharged. If you have this kind of debt, you'd be better off to take care of it under the old laws.

*I'm not a lawyer and not giving legal advice - just my perception.

All the best,
Ronnie
TatteredInTexas

[Lightning]

Of course credit card debt will be dis-chargeable under the new law. It's frustrating to see so much mis-information about the new laws being spread through the bankrupt community.

One thing you'll need to explain (under old or new law) is your income and expenses. If you're earning $500 a month but aren't paying rent, utilities, or food expenses (I'm assuming this since you live with your parents), how can you be broke? Where is all the money going (besides what you're paying to credit card companies)?

[wing]

Of course credit card debt will be dis-chargeable under the new law. It's frustrating to see so much mis-information about the new laws being spread through the bankrupt community.

Looks like I need to find out more about the new law. Anybody got a link?

One thing you'll need to explain (under old or new law) is your income and expenses. If you're earning $500 a month but aren't paying rent, utilities, or food expenses (I'm assuming this since you live with your parents), how can you be broke? Where is all the money going (besides what you're paying to credit card companies)?

You assume mostly wrong. True, I don't pay rent since the mortgage is paid off, and haven't paid utilities since our coming here didn't effect them at all. I do however pay 1/2 the groceries, any extra phone charges for my calls, and every bit of anything else my 16 year old daughter and I need. That includes stuff like bus fares to school and back, clothing, "incidentals", you know... that stuff everyone needs in daily life that isn't food? I also pay $150/mo for storage on my stuff I have left, no room here. My parents are retired, below the poverty line, ...and so we're not just sitting here getting a free ride.


Whoops! did I get a little huffy? sorry, didn't mean to. You don't know me or my situation so don't assume. Please.

[hhou812hh]

I have to agree with Lightning on this. Old law, New law Bankruptcy is still your constitutuional right. I noticed too that most people are rushing to beat the deadline (just as I was) thinking that it it won't be possible for debt relief after Oct 17th.
While it won't be as liberal as it is today it's still there for those who need it.

You can discharge almost the same debts under both laws. Things like non federally backed school loans aren't dischargeable, but this doesn't apply to you. There have been over 200 changes in the law, but the two that will affect us all the most will be the means test which you should qualify for a ch7 under and the increased paperwork and liabilities for the lawyer in which the legal fees will pretty much double in cost.


This link plus the means test on another recent thread should assist you.

http://www.bankruptcyaction.com/bankreform.htm

[Lightning]

You didn't mention a 16 year old daughter in your first post. How much money does she earn at her part-time job? She should be able to cover some clothing expenses at the very least. If you're below the poverty line, she should qualify for free school lunches and possibly breakfasts as well.

I'd be interested to hear how a trustee categorizes $150 in storage fees when your income is only $500 a month. You're essentially paying 30% of your income in "rent" for your belongings.

You may not be getting a "free ride", but if you're not paying rent, mortgage, or utilities, your expenses are greatly reduced.

Filing bankruptcy will erase your debt, but it won't increase your income which is what you really need to do if you want to make it through the month without borrowing. $500 a month for two people (you and your daughter) should qualify you for some sort of public assistance. What have you applied for? What is your daughter's father paying in child support or what is she receiving from social security if he's passed away? Is that included in the $500 a month? Since you don't need to worry about daycare, can you get a 2nd part-time job?

In short, yes, bankruptcy will help you with your debts, but no, bankruptcy will not help with your financial future and security with such a low income.

[wing]

I was wrong! You obviously know ALL about me! I can see from your posts that YOU Lightning are a financial wiz and I am just the dumb@ss loser here.


off to the dumb@ss loser forums...

[StaciMM]

Wing-

Lightning makes some good points, though he sometimes rubs people the wrong way. You came here for support-but sometimes it is better to hear all perspectives, not just the painted up nicely ones.

Regarding your situation, based on the info you listed regarding income & expenses, you most likely won't have any issues w/ filing BK. Now or after Oct. 17th you'll qualify easily. And yes, you're right that misc. monthly expenses can easily reach $500, and that is with or without a child to be responsible for. I can't imagine you having trouble w/ the trustee regarding your storage rent. Makes more sense to keep your stuff than deal with replacing it at some point. (Will certainly not be an issue now, as any expense you can document w/ receipts, etc. really can't be argued much. The new BK laws dictate more of what you can & can't claim, so there is a greater chance for that being an issue - yet I doubt it would be one.)

Regarding whether or not you need a lawyer, that isn't a question anyone else can answer for you. My opinion is that you clearly have a simple case. I can't imagine your BK having any impact on your parents, your living w/ them shouldn't be an issue. Have you lived w/ them for at least 3 months? If not, did live in the same area as before? I only ask because right now, you have to file in the district where you've lived the majority of the past 6 months.

I would suggest that you check out form7.com. Its software you can use to prepare you own BK paperwork. It costs about $39, but you can download a trial version which allows you to see some sample forms. (Useful whether you buy their software registration or not.) That is how I filed. From there, the filing fee is $209. **Look up info on your state's exemptions. I don't know how much you have saved for a car, but if your state allows you use the Homestead Exemption as wild card (some do if you don't own real property) then you can use that to exempt your savings.**

As for trying to increase your income... Some people might disagree, but I say to not bother til after filing. (Though I still don't know your situation-so I'm not presuming it is something you have the ability to do.) The reason is that what happens after you file is irrelevant to your BK. If you increase your income, then file, it could give you issues.

Good luck!

[StaciMM]

PS-since I got a bit long there, thought I'd add a short note here.

You have until next Friday to file under the old laws. If you have all your info (creditor names & addresses, income & sources for year to date, total income for 04 & 03) you could complete the form7.com software (or download & print forms and complete by hand) within a day or so, and mail or hand deliver to the court. So it is NOT too late.

Edited to add:
I think there is also a place where it asks for names/addresses for anyone you were married to in the past 6 years.

[sunshine08]

Wing, Its Ok. I know you are stressed. Concentrate on what you can change now and work on the things that you can't change later.
Lightening this is for you - just because child support is ordered, doesn't mean anything is the person isn't paying it. My ex husband didn't pay for 14 years, he always stayed one step ahead of the system. He never spent one day in jail, didnt lose his license and even collected money from the system for his new family. All the while I am working 2 plus jobs, going to school raising my sons with only my parents physical help. Living with family almost guarantees that the system isn't going to help you and if they do it is very little.
Wing - sorry to vent in your thread!!!!!!

[soldout]

Lightnings' Point of View

You didn't mention a 16 year old daughter in your... your financial future and security with such a low income.

I came to this forum for answers to a bunch of questions I had about B/K...Sure Lightning sounds a little rude at times, but his posts deliver some powerful points and advice...No one should get upset at his posts even if they seem rude sometimes...He/She does not know you, you do not know them, so suck it up because he does offer some great advice (positive or negative, some of it has to be dealt with regardless, you just cant ignore certain things)...As for this thread, he asked you them questions to get further knowledge of your situation so he could help you out even more...If your just looking for moral support I would suggest not to ask lawyer type questions on here because you are bound to get a reply that will either shock you or make you feel like dirt due to many "frowned upon" things that B/K has to deal with. Keep your chin up and look at Lightning as a "Trustee" type of quide...He is neither your friend or your enemy...He's one just trying to get all of the facts...The Trustee/Judge could think about all them things too...Gotta have "ALL" your ducks in line before you go through this process...Now that you have pissed him off, you noticed he hasnt been back to help...
Read this thread for more on this subject...

http://www.bankruptcyforum.com/showthread.php?p=15348#post15348

Sincerely,

~soldout~

[almost_homeless]

Soldout.

I agree with you to a certain extent. There are several ways to help people out. First of all...there is NO reason to be rude to anyone, for any reason. With the OP stating her finacial situation, i think that was enough, without revieling to much info.
Second, all she asked is if it was too late and for a link. Was it to much trouble to provide that info without knowing her personal life?

I worked in Social Services for many years....and i saw co-workers treat clients, who came to our agency for help, like dirt. I am starting to see bits and pieces of that here and there and it bothers me. Why do posters get grilled on every little detail. A simple yes or no, or a simple explaination was all that is needed.

I hope you will continue to post Wing and give an update!

[soldout]

I am starting to see bits and pieces of that here and there and it bothers me. Why do posters get grilled on every little detail. A simple yes or no, or a simple explaination was all that is needed.

Almost_Homeless

That is a big difference...Do you know my name...Where exactly I live...my SS #, my mother, ???...Personal, nothing here should really be personal... Rudeness should not be excepted here...I agree...But when someone is filing b/k EVERY LITTLE DETAIL is needed to make solid advice...Sure I could tell you that I only make 750 dollars a month (nevermind the 850 I get for child support) I have no other bills except rent (350), electricity (150), groceries (300), and clothes (50)...I have 30,000 in CC debt...Can i file? What advice would you give me...You probably wouldnt until you asked well does your daughter work, does the father pay child support...yadayadayada...Please dont comment about an "Internet Forum" and compare it to a "Social Services" office...Big Difference..Humiliation should be non-existant here...Thats whats wrong with our country..TO MANY FREAKING FEELINGS...Thats why this place is such a good one...No one has to know you but you can tell them everything...Am I Right? A simple yes or no could become a simple DENIAL of Discharge when it comes to this subject...No one wants that!!!

~soldout~

[sunshine08]

Soldout - since I started the thread you referred to, let me give my reason for it:
yes lightening does have good points
yes his is uncouth in his verbage
no no one comes here to be "verbally abused" either, you don't need to be kicked when you are down. anybody, i mean anybody can monday morning quarter back anything to death!
Look at Minnie - she has great points and she doesn't bash anybody
Nobody here has all the answers, we are here to share our experiences and learn.
The world is not an ideal place - because we all have different views of what "ideal" would be.
One last point that I do have to single lightening out, he doesn't mind asking questions and jumping to conclusions, excuse me, i have that the wrong way, he jumps to conclusions and eludes to questions, THEN WHY CAN'T HE ANSWER ANY QUESTIONS HE IS ASKED
YES, NOW I FEEL MUCH BETTER. IF I HAVE OFFENDED ANYONE, I PERSONALLY APOLOGISE.

[almost_homeless]

Almost_Homeless

That is a big difference...Do you know my name...Where exactly I live...my SS #, my mother, ???...Personal, nothing here should really be personal... Rudeness should not be excepted here...I agree...But when someone is filing b/k EVERY LITTLE DETAIL is needed to make solid advice...Sure I could tell you that I only make 750 dollars a month (nevermind the 850 I get for child support) I have no other bills except rent (350), electricity (150), groceries (300), and clothes (50)...I have 30,000 in CC debt...Can i file? What advice would you give me...You probably wouldnt until you asked well does your daughter work, does the father pay child support...yadayadayada...Please dont comment about an "Internet Forum" and compare it to a "Social Services" office...Big Difference..Humiliation should be non-existant here...Thats whats wrong with our country..TO MANY FREAKING FEELINGS...Thats why this place is such a good one...No one has to know you but you can tell them everything...Am I Right? A simple yes or no could become a simple DENIAL of Discharge when it comes to this subject...No one wants that!!!

~soldout~

The point is, she shouldn't have to be grilled. There are lots of different ways to handle questions that need a little more info...you could ask about the CS or Daughters income...which it shouldn't count anyway, as she is a MINOR! How was she suppose to know that there is a list of information that has to be presented when you ask for advise? Give me a break. Most of all give Wing a break.
As far as feelings...whats wrong with a little compassion. Obviously its something that some people here need to learn about.