Can we appeal Trustees decisions? HELP!!

[rimi2001]

We evacuated La. Aug. 28. Our bank records show everything since Aug 29. foward. This is a little personal, but we need help here. we are very confused at what this Trustee wants from us or if this is even correct what she is considering assets.

We recieved a letter today reiterating the instructions she had given us. She wants us to turn in our taxes, she never stated that at all, she only wanted our tax papers from last year, a phen fen settlement that is coming to us, and also wants us to turn in $3, 350.22 from the balance of funds in out bank (I am guessing this was the time of filing).

We filed pro se. I feel this it too late in the game to get a lawyer and cannot afford one at all at this point. We feel we are going to be in the same boat we were in before filing. We do not have the money she is asking for and have not filed taxes yet, but will this week since she is demanding this of us or she will file a complaint and revoke the dishcharge.

This is what she has in front of her

Aug 29. $554.99 we evacuated with this in the bank (BALANCE)
Sep 9 $ 2,000.00 Fema deposited money for evacuating
Sep 17 $ 2,251.00 Deposit of our insurance living expense check claim
Sep 29 $ 2,358.00 Fema depoisted money for living expenses
Sep 30 178.00 Fema desposited money for damages ins. did not cover
Sep 30 570.39 Paycheck (spouse)
Oct 3-12 500.00 unemployment (myself)

50.00 (we told her cash on hand) I know dumb move. But she said she wanted this too.

This is all the income we had in the bank for this time frame. The trustee did not do a breakdown of what the assets were in the bank. From my own reading and studying, Fema money is public assistance, unemployment is public assistance, the insurance money that was used for living expenses, is not public assistance, she wants this and our question is, what about the beginning balance and the one paycheck? How can she take all of this? We needed to pay bills and catch up on one of the mortgages.

We also have a possible settlement coming for 4,000 that has been going on for 4 years now. she said she wants this also at the 341 meeting. Potential tax refund this year is 3-4,000.

We just cannot see giving up almost 10,000.oo when it is needed. Would we have done better filing a chapter 13. Can we even do this now?

Please if anyone has any suggestions. And please do not tell us to seek a lawyer. Right now in La. they are hard to come by and we have tried several months back with no call backs. The ones that are working are swamped right now. the trustee wants her money now!

Thanks in advance.

[bkadv]

I know you don't want to hear this but you need to seek an attorney right away even if you have to go outside your city to do so. An attorney will know better how to negotiate with this Trustee. Most Trustee's and Attorneys have a working relationship that would prove valuable to you.

When you file bk you pretty much have to be indigent, have zero monies.
If these monies came in after you filed an attorney may be able to help.

[rimi2001]

We filed Oct. 14th. So all of these monies were in there when we filed.

[alh]

We filed Oct. 14th. So all of these monies were in there when we filed.

OK so that is not good. Unless it was exempt and was there the day you filed, it is technically the part of the estate.

I wonder if there is anything about FEMA funds or disaster relief being exempt. Since bankruptcy is a federal process thre might be something somewhere about those funds beign exempt. I don't know, just specutating.

[alh]

Not exactly related but may help some

http://floridaassetprotection.blogs.com/alperlaw/2004/09/index.html

[rimi2001]

As of right now, the Fema money seems to be expemt. The trustees, from what I hear, are trying to find out if that is something they can get their hands on. I believe it has to be found out through the government, ect. Our trustee is not coming after ours. Only the insurance money we collected for evacuating - living expenses. Still not nice, but it was in our account. Stupid move on our part, but we did not know morals did not play a part in theses cases!

Now we had to survive, and use this money to play catch up, higher utiltity bills (we had 9 people live with us after returning home), and we have to come up with this money somehow.

[time4cake]

When you file bk you pretty much have to be indigent, have zero monies.

I disagree with this. To file bankruptcy you do not need to be indigent.

Also, what exemptions did you use to protect your assets? Federal or State?

I filed using the federal exemptions, and my attorney exempted all my cash. Without getting too personal I had more cash than you are mentioning.

I will say that to exempt the cash I used the wildcard allowance from my homestead, so that may not be an option to you.

I am curious what assets you listed as exempt.

[SinkingFast]

The Unemployment portion should also be exempt. That's specifically mentioned in the New Law. Unemployment is treated like Soc Sec. It's exempt.

That's a few bucks at least, on top of the FEMA money.

[rimi2001]

Yes, forgot to mention that the unemployment was exempt.

Louisiana does not give a wild card, personal injury suits are not exempt. The only thing expemt is basically personal belongings and 25K home equity and public assistance. I believe personal injury suits are exempt if you are a government worker. I may be wrong, but if someone could help me understand that part, that would help us out tremendously! I could not understand what I was reading regarding that part. We are in Louisisana.

We used federal exemptions and filed pro se.

I am about to pull my hair out at this point. Trustee letter states that if we do not comply within a reasonable amount of time (meaning turn in money and tax papers), trustee will revoke dishcharge. Does this mean it will be over and done basically? Can anything else happen to us if we do not comply? We are talking about 10K in money that could be spread out to creditors. So what is the difference if trustee does it or we do it?

Help! We need to get this done ASAP.

[SinkingFast]

Basically, from the research I did, being a Katrina Victim only got filers under the New Law a pass on the Credit Counseling requirement, and all filers were able to make alternate arrangements if they could not attend the 341 in person.

Evidently you would still have to use the Louisianna exemptions, and you can apply Certain Federal Exemptions. Which is not much help in your case at all.

Basically, the balance in the bank on hand to start, $554.99, the insurance assistance payment, $2251, and the paycheck, $530.79,........ All those monies were not covered by any exemption. That's $3336.78 in cash assets that you could not cover by any exemption. Pretty close to the $3350.22 the Trustee wants from you.

While you apparently do not have exemptions to cover this $$ amount, I personally find it reprehensible that this Trustee is doing this to people. If you were Joe Blow public in someother part of the country, I'd say, "Sorry you filed your paperwork wrong." But in your case, you needed that money to reestablish your live after a HUGE natural disaster.

While this Trustee may be within her legal right to do what she's doing, I believe, ethically, she's abusing her power in this case. Talk about kicking people when they are down!!

At this point, I think you have no recourse but to comply with the Trustee's request for payment. Since you have spent the funds, as you say, contact the Trustee's office and arrange a payment plan to repay the $3350.22 this B!TCH wants. She can get the money from the Settlement when it comes. You shouldn't be responsible for paying it before that. That's like asking you to fork over the monies for you anticipated income tax refund before you ever receive the check. Something may happen with the settlement and you may never receive the $4K you're expecting.

But don't stop there. Write a letter to the Judge and the US Trustee's Office. Explain all this stuff, the monies that went in your bank acct, what they were and when you received them, just like you did to us. Tell them what you've spent the monies on and tell them that you believe that this Trustee is being particularly harsh and taking advantage of her position in judicating over Katrina Victims' BK Estates. Ask them for a different decision. The Judge and/or US Trustee can over rule the Standing Trustee.

[SinkingFast]

Just a side note here,.............

Hubby had FOX news on today when he was home for lunch. They broke into their regular programming to show W's plane landing in New Orleans. He's there to survey the progress and rally volunteers to keep working.

After the announcer said that, I yelled at the TV, "And tell the BK Trustees to leave filers and their money alone while you're there!"

I'm sure he heard every word and will take my comments under advisement.

[aa06a47]

I understand the disaster that Katrina has had on many many lives. I know the trustees must be going crazy doing what the law pretty much mandates they do. This is a unique situation in LA, but our congress and president would do nothing to help with this situation when it came to doing anything to hurt there representation of the credit card industry. Hurt the disaster victums, but don't screw with the cc company.

It is apparant to me that our Congress does not represent the people anymore, but the lobbyist.

I do have a question though, why would you file BK with 10K or more in the bank? I would have thought you could have gotten your "house" in order a little and then filed without all that money in the bank.

[aa06a47]

I disagree with this. To file bankruptcy you do not need to be indigent.

Also, what exemptions did you use to protect your assets? Federal or State?

I filed using the federal exemptions, and my attorney exempted all my cash. Without getting too personal I had more cash than you are mentioning.

I will say that to exempt the cash I used the wildcard allowance from my homestead, so that may not be an option to you.

I am curious what assets you listed as exempt.

In the state I reside, you are not allowed to wildcard one exemption onto another. There is a small exemption for cash, but you kinda need to be "indigent" so to speak. You might be exempt rich, but you gotta be cash poor.

This is why hiring a lawyer or going to some free consults can save some money. Obviously in LA, the bk trustee wants everything.

[rimi2001]

We had no choice at the time when they advertised repeatedly that we had to file no later than Oct 14th 3:00pm. so that is what we did. I studied and researched well before the hurricane had happened and while we were evacuating. This was anticipated before we knew a hurricane was coming. It just so happened that these monies were put in the bank at around the same time because that is the way it just was. We were in a different state and the safe way to do this was direct deposit. My only major error, which I had no clue was an error at the time, was putting our insurance "living expense check" in the bank. This was not a direct deposit. Our insurance company set up in Texas, where so many of us did evacuate and issued checks to us on the spot. Our house affairs were put on hold way after the Oct. 14th deadline. Unfortunately, after that date we then heard they extened the BK date for Katrina victims. It sure was not advertised before then.

SINKINGFAST:

Hmm! That sounds like an idea. So in the meantime, if I write the judge and US Trustee, I would ask the Trustee for a payment plan? Would I call the clerk of courts office to ask their opinion, or just write to them ASAP with out doing anything else. Would the Trustee need a copy of the letter also?

Is she going to ask why I need a payment plan and want to see proof of our spending the money?

Thanks for taking time to research and reply. I appreciate that very much!

[SinkingFast]

Since most Trustees are attnys, I'd send a letter to the BK Court and to the Trustee's personal office. Cover yourself both ways. Hit her at the Court House and at her office.

Explain that you needed to spend the funds on hand to reestablish your life when you relocated back to the area. Maybe list some of the items you purchased or services you needed to pay for upon your return home. The Trustee may indeed want to see receipts, so hopefully you kept some.

From what attnys told us here, Trustees will easily take payments, at no interest, over a period of a year. So state in your letter that you will send 11 monthly payments of $280, with a final payment of $270.22 for the balance of the $3350.22 the Trustee has requested. Also inform the Trustee that you have not to date received the proposed settlement on the Class Action Suit. When the proposed $4K payment arrives, you will forward the check to the Trustee as settlement of the Trustee's requirements for your Discharge.

Maybe wait to see if the Trustee agrees to your terms. Then, turn right around and write another letter to the Judge and the US Trustee of your area. Explain all about the money, how you did not know the filing date had been extended, that you rushed to file, what you spent the money on, etc, etc, and ask for them to reverse the Trustee's decision to sieze your insurance settlement and pay funds.

Take care of the Trustee and setting up a payment plan first. Cause if you don't, she can wreak havoc with your entire BK. So play nice with her to start.