Fraud? Or smart, please advise.

[Brokeandbeat]

This could be an intresting scenerio.

Currently live with parents:
This means that I will fail the means test in my state (becuase I don't have significant rent expenses)
THIS is where it gets intresting.

1. Why not rent an apartment (credit still ok)
2. Then I would be ok for a Chapter 7. (pass means test)
3. Then why not sub-let out the apartment and move back home.
4. I would still be officially paying the landlord.
5. If the sub lease was payed to me in Cash, I could use the cash for day to day expenses.

I don't want to cheat the law, can someone advise me if this is considered legal?

Thanks

[keepmine]

It's legal as long as you are paying the rent. Where it gets slippery is if you don't report the reimbursement from the sublet as income.
If you do this, stay in that apt. until the bk is discharged.

[FoolAndHisMoney]

Doing that is not fraud. Not disclosing the income is fraud. It maybe hard for the trustee to trace since it will probably be cash, but not disclosing all of you income will be fraud.

In bankruptcy, fraud is pretty much when a debtor doesn't disclose everything they should no matter how small.

Just pay your parents some rent. Maybe they can "reinvest" the money back into their home.

[SinkingFast]

Ditto's to what Keep said.

Rent an apt for filing BK so you have those monthly living expenses. Stay there at the very minimum, thru your 341. Staying until Discharge is best to be on the safe side.

The whole time your BK is active, the Trustee is in charge of your "estate". They can call for new pay stubs, bank statements, ask to have your residence inventoried or anything they want during that time period. So it's best to maintain a low profile and keep things the same as the day you filed until the Trustee is done with your case.

[FilingOnMyOwn]

Seems like a decent idea. I would try to find a very short term lease tho, 3-6 months or less, or even a month to month lease. Nothing would be worse than getting your debts discharged and be locked into paying more bills in the future. Its not always easy to find someone to rent out a place, it can sometimes take months to find tenants.

[scammer]

Coming from a property owner, landlord, and not a schmuck, YOU WILL NOT FIND ONE LANDLORD, THAT WILL ALLOW YOU TO SUBLET, SUBLEASE, WHAT EVER THE WORD IS, NOT IN MY VOCABULARY. Let a tenant play property manager with my investment, nope. You can move out early, landlord keeps deposit for liquidated damages and releases property. In all fairness to the landlord, what could he possibly get by allowing you to sublease? I can tell you exactly how to achieve this, but I don't want to get booed off the board yet this week!!! There is a way, legally, sneaky, and legit, pm me, if I get a chance I will explain.

[FilingOnMyOwn]

Coming from a property owner, landlord, and not a schmuck, YOU WILL NOT FIND ONE LANDLORD, THAT WILL ALLOW YOU TO SUBLET, SUBLEASE, WHAT EVER THE WORD IS, NOT IN MY VOCABULARY. Let a tenant play property manager with my investment, nope. You can move out early, landlord keeps deposit for liquidated damages and releases property. In all fairness to the landlord, what could he possibly get by allowing you to sublease? I can tell you exactly how to achieve this, but I don't want to get booed off the board yet this week!!! There is a way, legally, sneaky, and legit, pm me, if I get a chance I will explain.

Most landlords would probably never even know about it

[LostOne0069]

Most landlords would probably never even know about it

Guess what, that's called fraud. Most leases specifically prohibit subletting.

[SinkingFast]

When Hubby moved here ahead of the rest of the family, we were able to find several apt complexes that would write a shorter term lease. Their standard minimum was 6 months, but they would allow for less.

We got a 4 month lease for him and he went month to month after that until we moved here.

Generally, the apt offices charged a little bit higher rent/mo to go with the shorter term.

In our case, the apt complex we chose didn't charge a huge difference either. Something like $20-$25/mo more for the shorter term. Another one wanted $35/mo more and another was $50/mo more to get a shorter term lease. So be prepared to pay a bit more/mo to get a 3 month lease.

[scammer]

. Most landlords would probably never even know about it

I don't know why I am even answering this.

1) What happens if sublet tenant trashes place, guess who is responsible?
2) Who calls for repairs?
2.5) What about utilities, they notify landlord when they change?
3) What about mail service?
4) Don't you think the landlord is going to wonder who that is living there?
5) What happens when there is an emergency repair, and sublet is there? and your not?
6) What kind of person would get themselves into a deal of subletting an apt on the sly?


Can you see how crazy this idea is?




Sincerely

[Bobby'sGirl]

It may be less than desirable from landlord's view...

....but in this college town, landlords allow it rather than facing vacant apartments and going after college kids just skipping out. At least they get some replacement income in those months left on the lease. (Several of my friends have huge old homes subdivided into student apartments.)

[FilingOnMyOwn]

[QUOTE=scammer]I don't know why I am even answering this.

1) What happens if sublet tenant trashes place, guess who is responsible?
2) Who calls for repairs?
2.5) What about utilities, they notify landlord when they change?
3) What about mail service?
4) Don't you think the landlord is going to wonder who that is living there?
5) What happens when there is an emergency repair, and sublet is there? and your not?
6) What kind of person would get themselves into a deal of subletting an apt on the sly?


Can you see how crazy this idea is?




lol. I know what you're saying, but I can promise you its been done at least a million times.

[SinkingFast]

My advise would be to read thru the lease very carefully before signing. If there's a clause about subletting being a "No No" then don't sublet or don't lease to start with.

If there's no clause about subletting, and you want to take the risk, then by all means, feel free to give it a try.

It's the same here as Bobby's Girl was saying where they live. Big college town. Landlords would rather get something than nothing. Subletting goes on all the time.

Lots of times, you can sublet a place here for cheaper than normal rent. The original tenant wants to get out and is willing to take a slight hit over having to pay the full amount of rent due.

[FilingOnMyOwn]

I lived in someone else's apartment for a year. I gave her the money and she wrote the rent check. I would call maintainance to come fix something, and say 'oh yeah shes not here right now'. Unless your landlord is nosy enough to follow around people that come and go, its really not all that hard to pull off. Most landlords really only care about the rent coming in every month and the place not getting trashed.

[SinkingFast]

I lived in someone else's apartment for a year. I gave her the money and she wrote the rent check. I would call maintainance to come fix something, and say 'oh yeah shes not here right now'. Unless your landlord is nosy enough to follow around people that come and go, its really not all that hard to pull off. Most landlords really only care about the rent coming in every month and the place not getting trashed.

Oh Yeah, Baby! That was us.

We just escaped the Landlord from HELL!! She was exactly like that.